WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.740 --> 00:00:14.410 Town of Plainfield: Okay, this is the, November 10, Select Board meeting for the Town of Plainfield. We're starting at 6 o'clock, and 2 00:00:15.060 --> 00:00:16.989 Town of Plainfield: I'm calling the meeting to order. 3 00:00:17.180 --> 00:00:26.399 Town of Plainfield: Any changes to the agenda? I'm tracking one change in sequence, which is, the East Phillies expansion next steps. 4 00:00:26.490 --> 00:00:33.720 Town of Plainfield: is… needs to be moved beyond the executive session with the attorney. Okay. So it's the second to last. 5 00:00:33.720 --> 00:00:48.659 Town of Plainfield: Yep, okay, I marked that. Anything else? I have something, but it's not change. You what? I have something, but it's not change. Because of the… can I say it now? Is it an announcement, or a change? It's an announcement. Fine. 6 00:00:49.110 --> 00:01:06.730 Town of Plainfield: Yeah, we can have an announcement now, if you'd like. Oh, okay. There's no more changes. Okay, because Thanksgiving is coming, and it's been so dark and awful, and everyone's been working so hard, and some people might feel discouraged, I want to tell you guys a little known fact, is that what do you get when you, clone a turkey and an octopus? 7 00:01:08.620 --> 00:01:28.929 Town of Plainfield: Enough drumsticks for everybody! All right. I was gonna announce the town committee vacancies as part of the announcement. Well, I was gonna, I was gonna thank you for doing that, but you can do that. Oh, you, you can, you can thank… I was gonna thank Francis Rose for posting. 8 00:01:28.930 --> 00:01:53.339 Town of Plainfield: On Front Porch Forum, all the vacancies we have in town, which I counted to 19, currently, and that's almost as many people as in this room. Yeah, wow! We could pick everyone here. We'll just pick everyone and assign everybody a job. Okay, but that's… but thanks for doing that. Do you want to read them off, or… Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to read everything, but okay, friends, this town runs on volunteers. 9 00:01:53.550 --> 00:02:11.150 Town of Plainfield: And some dedicated employees. On the volunteer position side of things, the many commissions and committees and official roles in town, many of which are empty right now. We need help, doesn't have to be you, but it could be your friends, could be your partners, could be you. 10 00:02:11.180 --> 00:02:14.979 Town of Plainfield: Cemetery commission, 3 vacancies. 11 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:23.979 Town of Plainfield: Conservation Commission, 4 vacancies. Wow. Planning Commissioner, just one. You can have more than one, but Will says 5 is a good number. 12 00:02:24.510 --> 00:02:37.390 Town of Plainfield: Karen Storr is offering to train a zoning administrator to shadow her for the foreseeable future until that person is ready to step into that role fully. 13 00:02:37.390 --> 00:02:49.000 Town of Plainfield: The Development Review Board is looking for two more people. Our Emergency Management Director is stepping down after annual meeting, May. 14 00:02:49.270 --> 00:02:54.580 Town of Plainfield: Carl Bissex is not seeking re-election on the Select Board. 15 00:02:55.810 --> 00:03:01.070 Town of Plainfield: 3 auditors. You do not need accounting experience to be an auditor. 16 00:03:02.430 --> 00:03:05.560 Town of Plainfield: Accessibility committees, looking for two more. 17 00:03:06.050 --> 00:03:10.410 Town of Plainfield: Jody Velarde is looking for a Deputy Health Officer. 18 00:03:10.630 --> 00:03:17.790 Town of Plainfield: Recreation committee is looking for one more. And the grants team, grant administrators are looking for one to two. 19 00:03:18.130 --> 00:03:19.710 Town of Plainfield: Be a rainmaker. 20 00:03:22.410 --> 00:03:34.780 Town of Plainfield: There you go. For your information, pass the word around. People aren't leaping up, but thank you for that. Public comment? 21 00:03:38.530 --> 00:03:50.830 Town of Plainfield: Okie dokie. Can we go to the town clerk's report? And we would ask you to use the bike and state your name on your… all… anyone who's going to be talking on the mic. Thanks. Brent Tobin, Town Clerk. 22 00:03:51.500 --> 00:03:58.030 Town of Plainfield: Just wanna, review. We had, The elections went well. 23 00:03:58.150 --> 00:04:09.920 Town of Plainfield: I want to make a note regarding absentee ballots. There were two, people who were not able to cast their votes because 24 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:23.269 Town of Plainfield: even though we sent the ballots out a week and a half ahead of time, they never arrived. And with many of the people, the arrival dates, one person who lives directly across from the municipal building. 25 00:04:23.460 --> 00:04:34.930 Town of Plainfield: It took about 9 days for the ballot to arrive. So I really just want to caution people regarding, absentee voting. I think that this is something that we… 26 00:04:35.220 --> 00:04:39.520 Town of Plainfield: I think this is the new normal, and things are really unfortunate. 27 00:04:39.650 --> 00:04:43.959 Town of Plainfield: I also want to just follow up… Just maybe one. 28 00:04:44.580 --> 00:04:46.660 Town of Plainfield: Just… so… 29 00:04:46.710 --> 00:04:53.400 Town of Plainfield: Town meeting day, folks need to request a ballot. They can do it now for Town Meeting Day, they can go into the system, right? 30 00:04:53.400 --> 00:05:09.049 Town of Plainfield: I haven't set up that election yet, but maybe by next meeting, we probably will. And then, primaries in August next year, you need to request a ballot, and then the November election next year, automatically every, 31 00:05:09.050 --> 00:05:32.910 Town of Plainfield: qualified voter receives a ballot around 45 days before the election. It… except… I think that has to be… I can't remember if that's okay for, just the general election. Okay, for the general election. Everybody will get a ballot. Everybody, okay, because, they keep on going back and forth. Some years they do, some years they don't. It's not state law, every November. Got it, okay, great. Yeah, so… 32 00:05:33.100 --> 00:05:36.090 Town of Plainfield: You can also, 33 00:05:36.290 --> 00:05:53.759 Town of Plainfield: It would be best if you, elections are completed for this year, so the best thing to do would be after the first, just the way the system works, you can go online and request an absentee ballot for the rest of the year. And that's the calendar year, so… 34 00:05:53.870 --> 00:06:12.840 Town of Plainfield: I would sort of log on, and I'll remind everybody. On a technical note, the Board of Civil Authority, every two years, goes through and purges names of people who are no longer in town, etc. From the checklist, we were supposed to do this 35 00:06:12.950 --> 00:06:29.659 Town of Plainfield: In September, but unfortunately, the school, issued an election, which we weren't prepared for, and you're not allowed to purge anybody 90 days before an election. So we have a list of… there's probably about 85 people that, we need to… 36 00:06:29.730 --> 00:06:43.639 Town of Plainfield: get off the rolls, and that will require a Board of Civil Authority meeting. But in order not to run into another 90 days before an election problem, we have to do it before December 3rd, so probably the next Select Board meeting, there will be a small 37 00:06:43.730 --> 00:06:45.980 Town of Plainfield: Board of Civil Authority. 38 00:06:46.220 --> 00:07:03.349 Town of Plainfield: Following up on what Francis was discussing, I think that it would be good if the Select Board, had a committee to talk about, the listers. Unfortunately, we're losing 39 00:07:03.380 --> 00:07:09.629 Town of Plainfield: One of our best whisters, is moving on, Gary Smith. 40 00:07:09.810 --> 00:07:24.030 Town of Plainfield: So there's gonna be an opening for the lister, but I also wonder if, this might be a time for the board to examine, the role of the lister versus an assessor. 41 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:27.099 Town of Plainfield: There's a technical difference 42 00:07:27.430 --> 00:07:37.999 Town of Plainfield: One requires, more training and, more certification. Ironically, one of our listeners is officially an assessor. 43 00:07:38.200 --> 00:07:40.080 Town of Plainfield: And, 44 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:54.679 Town of Plainfield: I think it would be good for Kaylee and Sandy to just discuss this as a possible option for the board. In addition, maybe the board might want to look at, 45 00:07:54.930 --> 00:08:04.659 Town of Plainfield: having appointees, rather than elections for certain positions. I can't remember if the Cemetery Commission is elected. 46 00:08:04.830 --> 00:08:15.909 Town of Plainfield: But, I think, it would make things run smoother if we identified which positions might be better served, since no one's stepping up as 47 00:08:16.140 --> 00:08:22.399 Town of Plainfield: appointed positions, because that might give us flexibility to go outside of the playing field of town lawman. 48 00:08:22.750 --> 00:08:33.629 Town of Plainfield: So, just some stuff to think about. I think that's about it. Okay, thanks. Thank you very much. Oh, I'm sorry, you asked me to follow up regarding insurance. 49 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:41.549 Town of Plainfield: if we adopted the no trespass rule, they're looking into it and haven't gotten back to me yet, but I'll have something for next week. 50 00:08:41.820 --> 00:08:43.919 Town of Plainfield: Thank you. Thanks. 51 00:08:45.330 --> 00:08:53.410 Town of Plainfield: We have listed a constable report, but I don't see them online. Anne's not online? No, I don't see them. 52 00:08:54.030 --> 00:09:10.810 Town of Plainfield: I believe he gave us a note not that long ago that Monday evenings are hard for him to be in person. He came last time on a Tuesday evening, so we may want to just remove this, and I know he sends us paper reports monthly. Yeah, okay. 53 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:16.090 Town of Plainfield: We were in touch, you left the second day. We can move on. 54 00:09:16.670 --> 00:09:21.970 Town of Plainfield: Move on? Yeah. Grant administrative report. 55 00:09:30.520 --> 00:09:43.230 Town of Plainfield: evening off. A brief report, since I gave you a report in full a couple weeks ago. Yeah. Just an update. And this is a really good one. The, the grant that… 56 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:48.380 Town of Plainfield: Has been put together for the study of the Great Brook from the top to the bottom. 57 00:09:48.460 --> 00:10:00.849 Town of Plainfield: That has moved forward, and we are now organizing a meeting with, the consultant who's been hired from, SLR Consulting, Roy Schiff. 58 00:10:00.930 --> 00:10:19.400 Town of Plainfield: and the other consultants who've been working with Josh on, the federal highway plans for Great Brook, for the Brook Road. And so, tomorrow evening, at 5 o'clock, the small grants team that's working on this grant, project. 59 00:10:19.800 --> 00:10:29.819 Town of Plainfield: We'll meet to plan a larger meeting with the consultants, and we'll announce when that is, because I understand there'll probably be some interest in folks 60 00:10:30.020 --> 00:10:46.669 Town of Plainfield: learning more about that. And that… Will that be at the municipal office? We'll, figure that out, but we're… the meeting tomorrow is at the municipal office. Yeah, that's what I was asking. Yeah. And, other than that… 61 00:10:47.260 --> 00:10:50.979 Town of Plainfield: There really isn't another… anything else to report on at this point. 62 00:10:51.110 --> 00:11:08.360 Town of Plainfield: Okay, that's good news. Any questions? Thank you. From anyone? Okay, thanks, Karen. Michael? Yeah, quickly to add that, although I posted it on… Gotta use the microphone. Oh, sorry. Can you use this one? I was just thinking I could talk to the owl from that. 63 00:11:12.890 --> 00:11:22.189 Town of Plainfield: Just to say, Michael Billingsley, that I had posted on Front Push Firm and Plainfield People that there was to be helicopter over flights. 64 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:42.190 Town of Plainfield: to begin that study that was just referenced, those overflights keep being postponed because of rain and bad weather, so it's still possible they will happen by the end of the week. George Springsten and I are working with the engineer to try and coordinate how that study impacts, townspeople, and we'll keep you informed. 65 00:11:42.560 --> 00:11:50.319 Town of Plainfield: Thank you. So if we hear a low helicopter, not to be alarmed. 66 00:11:51.980 --> 00:11:56.000 Town of Plainfield: Next item on the agenda is the, EVAC report. 67 00:12:01.250 --> 00:12:17.410 Town of Plainfield: It was, Donnie Austin's turn, but he asked if I could step in for him to give a few updates, so… I basically just wanted to provide a sense of, where the committee currently is with the scope of work that was provided by the Select Board, just… 68 00:12:17.590 --> 00:12:19.040 Town of Plainfield: Given that… 69 00:12:19.940 --> 00:12:25.350 Town of Plainfield: this is a good time to sort of see where we are. The scope of work as defined. 70 00:12:27.510 --> 00:12:30.220 Town of Plainfield: In the document, sorry. 71 00:12:30.530 --> 00:12:40.750 Town of Plainfield: Karen, can you angle the microphone down? Yeah, thanks, sorry, it's hard for me to breathe. So, the scope of work, 72 00:12:40.770 --> 00:12:51.409 Town of Plainfield: is, the EVAC will prioritize developing a detailed budget and financing options with the goal of getting a public vote as soon as possible on the project. 73 00:12:51.450 --> 00:13:08.640 Town of Plainfield: The budget shall include detailed engineering, permitting, construction costs, including roads, sidewalk, trees, planting, water, sewer, stormwater, electricity, telephone, internet, as well as project management. That was completely in the grant application that was submitted for the Community Development Block Grant Disaster Recovery. 74 00:13:08.640 --> 00:13:12.209 Town of Plainfield: are also known as the CEJDR funding. 75 00:13:12.300 --> 00:13:13.200 Town of Plainfield: Dom. 76 00:13:13.340 --> 00:13:27.349 Town of Plainfield: the EVAC will recommend expenditures to the Select Board, also contained in that budget. The EVEAC will recommend contracts to the Select Board, such as testing, engineering, construction, and municipal project management. 77 00:13:27.350 --> 00:13:39.650 Town of Plainfield: We have recommended a lot of details associated with that, and the roles, but there's not specific contracts that are in place, and that would be subject, may be subject to the rules. 78 00:13:39.650 --> 00:13:48.859 Town of Plainfield: of the funding that would be used to fund them, but that, in terms of who those roles are and what is needed, that is also clearly defined in the grant application. 79 00:13:50.450 --> 00:14:04.330 Town of Plainfield: Evac will make informed design recommendations by soliciting feedback from both community members and relevant experts. There is additional work to do on that. There is… there has been some significant feedback to date, as, 80 00:14:04.690 --> 00:14:09.060 Town of Plainfield: You all are aware of, but there also are… is additional work to do there. 81 00:14:09.270 --> 00:14:21.659 Town of Plainfield: The EVEAC will make process recommendations about decisions such as how to sell parcels and pricing. There is a draft plan in the grant application, there is a little more work to do on that, such as, 82 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:29.079 Town of Plainfield: The exact entity, or the exact process for coming up with entities to sell the land and the parcels. 83 00:14:29.540 --> 00:14:37.369 Town of Plainfield: The EVEAC will develop and prepare all permitting applications for the Select Board to submit on behalf of the town. There are… 84 00:14:37.770 --> 00:14:51.590 Town of Plainfield: no formal permitting applications that have been up to date. There have been preliminary conversations with regulators having to do with stormwater and, wetlands. And, the wetlands issue, as many people are aware. 85 00:14:51.880 --> 00:15:05.079 Town of Plainfield: wetlands issue is subject to an executive order that is currently being, I guess, legally challenged, and, but A&R is issuing… has issued draft new rules that they're planning to finalize in light of that executive order. 86 00:15:06.170 --> 00:15:14.160 Town of Plainfield: And we did receive a PAC250, exemption. 87 00:15:19.020 --> 00:15:27.230 Town of Plainfield: The EVAC will develop an execution plan for overseeing day-to-day construction, recommending professional agents. That is contained within the grant application. 88 00:15:27.330 --> 00:15:40.870 Town of Plainfield: EVEAC will coordinate with other town committees and departments directly as needed, such as water and wastewater, roads, planning, rec, and public arts. Many of those committees, or I would actually think all of them have been 89 00:15:40.870 --> 00:15:51.949 Town of Plainfield: briefed on the project and plans to date, and many of them have provided specific letters, essentially, certifying that they would be able to provide service, as proposed. 90 00:15:51.950 --> 00:16:01.980 Town of Plainfield: Evac will regularly share public progress reports, including compromises made to remediate the perceived harms caused by the project. That would be… this would be your progress report. 91 00:16:02.280 --> 00:16:06.149 Town of Plainfield: Along with others that have been done by Liz and Donnie. 92 00:16:06.420 --> 00:16:15.169 Town of Plainfield: The EVAC will establish a guide, guide working groups towards the goal of village expansion. We do have several working groups that have… 93 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:37.050 Town of Plainfield: to generate most of the stuff that we've done to date. And we'll appoint one or more liaisons to the Select Board. That is Liz and Donnie. So, in terms of the scope of the work that the Select Board had laid out, just in summary, most of that has been done. There are a few details regarding permitting, some additional public input. 94 00:16:37.050 --> 00:16:38.620 Town of Plainfield: And, 95 00:16:42.290 --> 00:16:43.990 Town of Plainfield: Sorry, what's the other one? 96 00:16:46.380 --> 00:16:58.449 Town of Plainfield: And lot sales, that still have to be enabled work, but otherwise, largely, the scope of work has been accomplished to date, and that is the summary. Any questions? 97 00:16:58.570 --> 00:16:59.770 Town of Plainfield: Thank you. 98 00:17:00.300 --> 00:17:04.899 Town of Plainfield: Well, we certainly thank you for all this work you and others have been… 99 00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:18.779 Town of Plainfield: putting together. It's helpful to… So much more. Thank you, Aaron. Thank you. Maybe Thursday, I don't know. 100 00:17:18.780 --> 00:17:30.159 Town of Plainfield: We're skipping the, next steps. The, Blainfield Housing Advisory Committee. Well, I guess just to note, well, I guess, for those who came in late, we're, 101 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.390 Town of Plainfield: We hope, Ariane, that the… 102 00:17:33.560 --> 00:17:48.110 Town of Plainfield: committee is meeting on Thursday, because we're, in part, waiting for word from you all as an advisory body. You know, this impacts where we go, like, what the EVAC committee thinks. 103 00:17:48.190 --> 00:18:06.100 Town of Plainfield: Together. Yeah, and then meanwhile, we have a meeting later on, at the end of this meeting, with our town real estate attorney. And so, we're not going to speak any of the select board perceptions around next steps until we've had that conversation. 104 00:18:06.590 --> 00:18:09.430 Town of Plainfield: Yep, thank you. Yeah. 105 00:18:09.850 --> 00:18:17.819 Town of Plainfield: So, the Plainfield Housing Advisory Committee, who can, who can describe what that… Is going to entail. 106 00:18:19.120 --> 00:18:37.199 Town of Plainfield: I just posted it today to the Front Porch Forum. Did anybody read it? Yeah, sorry. Alright, alright, great. Is there one for a summary, or do we kind of just have a sense about what this is, what it means, and where we're going? I'm hearing whispers for summary. 107 00:18:37.330 --> 00:18:38.650 Town of Plainfield: Alright. 108 00:18:39.220 --> 00:18:56.740 Town of Plainfield: I mean, I think for a public open meeting, you guys need to have a conversation about that. Oh, no, we're about to, but I guess I didn't know… we've all read it. I know that we've all read it. This was a courtesy in case y'all want deeper in… should we just talk to ourselves about it? 109 00:18:56.740 --> 00:19:07.889 Town of Plainfield: I think you should just let everybody know, just like it was an open meeting, even if you had it in email, it should be part of your open meeting to explain what you're discussing, and then have that discussion. 110 00:19:07.890 --> 00:19:08.770 Town of Plainfield: Fair enough. 111 00:19:08.820 --> 00:19:10.579 Town of Plainfield: It's been… 112 00:19:10.930 --> 00:19:20.889 Town of Plainfield: Yeah, this idea, to explore the other strategies that this town has available to create housing, to create, 113 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:29.359 Town of Plainfield: livable properties that will add to the grand list and lower taxes. Many in this room have 114 00:19:29.540 --> 00:19:31.900 Town of Plainfield: Come up with many strong ideas. 115 00:19:32.060 --> 00:19:40.510 Town of Plainfield: And the thing the Select Board is looking for is to bring these strong ideas to the stage, to the phase of proposal. 116 00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:48.459 Town of Plainfield: I think, you know, one of the strengths of the EVIAC committee is it turned an idea into a proposal. 117 00:19:48.580 --> 00:20:07.540 Town of Plainfield: And that is an actionable thing, for the Select Board. And so, broadly, the Plainfield Housing Advisory Committee is something that I hope, I don't know, that we're going to vote into being before your very eyes, and that between 5 and 9, 118 00:20:07.670 --> 00:20:26.080 Town of Plainfield: will join that committee and make things happen. The structure of it is similar to the EVAC committee in that, you know, many people can be a part of it. Working groups, there are going to be sub-working groups that don't have to be formally on the committee, that get to enrich the work of whatever the committee is working on. 119 00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:31.670 Town of Plainfield: And that number can grow to whatever, number the… 120 00:20:31.970 --> 00:20:39.979 Town of Plainfield: Committee… you know, as long as the committee wants that exploration to happen, is basically how it goes. 121 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:43.389 Town of Plainfield: So, that is the proposal. 122 00:20:43.910 --> 00:20:50.760 Town of Plainfield: The verbiage is on the website. The verbiage is on Comfort Forum. 123 00:20:52.550 --> 00:21:05.750 Town of Plainfield: The organizational… Yeah, the charge. Yeah, well, I don't know how to quite get it started, but I… speaking for… as one, my goal has always been to get 124 00:21:05.870 --> 00:21:07.560 Town of Plainfield: affordable housing. 125 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:17.089 Town of Plainfield: in town that, both replaces what we've lost in the flood and helps us grow at a reasonable amount. 126 00:21:17.620 --> 00:21:24.279 Town of Plainfield: I've been talking to Michael Davidson, who's the new owner of the Goddard campus. He is… 127 00:21:24.350 --> 00:21:38.660 Town of Plainfield: he is interested, but he's not going to be the one, I think, who's going to supply new housing. He'll have… he's going to have apartments to rent, but he's not building a lot of houses, so if there's other ideas, we'd sure like to hear them. 128 00:21:39.850 --> 00:21:46.120 Town of Plainfield: For me, that's my thought. And then I suppose, are there any questions, either from the board or from anybody else? 129 00:21:49.360 --> 00:21:56.110 Town of Plainfield: Yeah. It's open to… Yeah, yeah, get to the mic, please. Name. 130 00:21:56.800 --> 00:22:06.660 Town of Plainfield: David Chapman, what's… what is the… relationship between this… 131 00:22:07.290 --> 00:22:12.410 Town of Plainfield: proposed committee and the playing field forward. I saw that a lot of the 132 00:22:12.610 --> 00:22:23.690 Town of Plainfield: the, language is the same. I've kind of assumed it will be one committee, but I, you know, that… 133 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:31.230 Town of Plainfield: notices I got from, The Plainfield Forward organizers 134 00:22:31.950 --> 00:22:46.869 Town of Plainfield: with… and the meeting on the 20th made it seem… didn't… there's no… I don't have any clarity about that. Sure. So that's my question. Yeah, no, that's a great question. I spoke with Laura Cabin-Bailey, this last week. 135 00:22:47.260 --> 00:22:51.519 Town of Plainfield: She noted that Plainfield is, 136 00:22:51.950 --> 00:23:06.010 Town of Plainfield: Not for the first time, but it is unusual in its organization, and kind of on top of things, what they are accustomed to, BCRD, is ad hoc community groups, supporting ad hoc community groups to do good things. 137 00:23:06.040 --> 00:23:19.090 Town of Plainfield: But because this is kind of, merging with Select Board intention to formally create an advisory body that, is reporting to us the findings. 138 00:23:19.650 --> 00:23:39.180 Town of Plainfield: That is what makes the moment unique, and temporally, it's, like, happening almost at the same time. So the meeting on the 20th is for anyone who was at Plainfield Ford, or who wasn't, but who heard about it and wants to be, gets to go to that meeting, and VCRD is gonna facilitate that meeting as they will. 139 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:56.700 Town of Plainfield: She knows, though, about this moment and this committee, and so, in part, that is going to be a brainstorm moment, I believe. It's also going to be a sorting moment. Who in that space at that time is interested in the committee? 140 00:23:56.700 --> 00:24:02.130 Town of Plainfield: Who is interested in supporting in a less time-consuming role? 141 00:24:02.130 --> 00:24:20.649 Town of Plainfield: to be on a working group. For example, what is that working group? Hopefully, it will come out, clarity-wise, at that meeting. Meanwhile, anything that is not yet sorted, I think she knows, Laura, this is the BCRD Laura, knows that this is, 142 00:24:20.860 --> 00:24:31.959 Town of Plainfield: I don't even know, a feeder into this committee, this effort, this role, uniquely. So the hope is that, one flows into the other, to summarize. 143 00:24:33.150 --> 00:24:43.749 Town of Plainfield: And we asked the VCRD to help us organize our thinking a little bit, to think about the future, and housing was certainly one of the big items that was 144 00:24:44.170 --> 00:24:50.530 Town of Plainfield: focused on, so… so they're interested to seeing how their work, I think, has… 145 00:24:50.790 --> 00:24:58.219 Town of Plainfield: come along. And this development of this committee would certainly Play into that exact issue. 146 00:25:02.660 --> 00:25:07.250 Town of Plainfield: Go right ahead. 147 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:12.550 Town of Plainfield: I'm a little confused as to the timing of… 148 00:25:13.080 --> 00:25:29.700 Town of Plainfield: the selection of the membership of the committee. Is it going to be after the 20th and the BCRG meeting? Yes. So not tonight? Not tonight. Not tonight. Although, you may leave your names and interests with us. 149 00:25:29.940 --> 00:25:31.120 Town of Plainfield: And… 150 00:25:32.190 --> 00:25:39.670 Town of Plainfield: Co-chairs, will they be selected by the membership of the committee, or by the select board? Membership of the committee, yeah. 151 00:25:39.730 --> 00:26:02.000 Town of Plainfield: Well, what we did with the EVEAC was, I… I… Francis Rose and I hosted the first EVEAC meeting, created an agenda that included the election of co-chairs. We had a vote of those members, they voted for the three co-chairs, and from after that meeting, then they were responsible for… for running the meeting. So the select board will call the first 152 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:07.130 Town of Plainfield: Meeting of this committee, since they won't have chairs, and they will elect chairs, and then the chairs will take over. 153 00:26:07.890 --> 00:26:11.580 Town of Plainfield: So, that all sounds good to me. 154 00:26:11.700 --> 00:26:20.580 Town of Plainfield: I would hope there will be outreach to… All the different ways. 155 00:26:20.990 --> 00:26:27.559 Town of Plainfield: Before the 20th, to encourage people to look at this, charge. 156 00:26:27.870 --> 00:26:30.300 Town of Plainfield: And so those are what BCRD has written. 157 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:37.030 Town of Plainfield: And to be ready to consider a membership of this committee, so that people don't… 158 00:26:37.910 --> 00:26:55.059 Town of Plainfield: Not everyone knows yet, and we might have spread the word. Yeah. If I may, I mean, using EVAC as the template, we announced the committee, and then either a meeting or two later, we announced that applications will 159 00:26:55.060 --> 00:27:10.119 Town of Plainfield: fully open, then we had a select board member talk with anyone who applied to get a sense, and then we had a meeting to actually bring people on. So, my guess is this is going to be a multiple select board meeting process to get to the committee. It's not going to happen fast. 160 00:27:10.580 --> 00:27:28.660 Town of Plainfield: Okay, and have you decided… Is that the procedure you're likely to follow again? I feel comfortable with that. I mean, I guess my question is, is there a reason we can't open up to interested parties today? Can we, like, include, if we bring it into being, can we ask for… 161 00:27:28.660 --> 00:27:53.519 Town of Plainfield: interest, you said it was, like, a meeting later that we opened up. Well, we can… I mean, we can… yeah, we still have to… I mean… No, I get that there's steps, and we need to talk to the people. Yes. But I mean, I suppose… I think I'd be interested in acknowledging that if we bring it into being, that signals openness, that we're willing to receive interest. Statements of interest, and then we will follow up. We will follow back. Yeah, I mean, we can… yeah, we can certainly do that. We created a form and stuff. 162 00:27:53.520 --> 00:28:04.179 Town of Plainfield: last time, so we could have all the statements of interest go to one place that isn't tied to one specific select board member and that everyone has access. That's a great idea. We may want to figure out how to do that before we… 163 00:28:04.180 --> 00:28:20.670 Town of Plainfield: And I remember receiving a list, and I called people who were on that list to just talk to them about what we were hoping to do. So I'd see the same process, right? Yeah. Does that sound good to everybody? As I recall. 164 00:28:20.990 --> 00:28:25.530 Town of Plainfield: Each of you had a list of people to call, but she… none of you called. 165 00:28:26.100 --> 00:28:47.009 Town of Plainfield: No two of you called the same people? That's not true. That's not true. We made sure everyone was called, but then there were people who were like, I'd also be interested in talking to this person, and so we didn't… we didn't hamstring that you couldn't call someone. It was just making sure that we actually got through to everyone, or tried to get through to everyone. Not everyone answered our calls. 166 00:28:47.790 --> 00:28:58.159 Town of Plainfield: So, I guess what the next step, then, is to… Oh, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. And I'm wondering how you came up with the number, 5 to 9. 167 00:28:58.690 --> 00:29:01.800 Town of Plainfield: And if you had a number in mind. 168 00:29:02.420 --> 00:29:08.529 Town of Plainfield: When you made the other committee, or if you looked at how much interest there was, or… 169 00:29:08.620 --> 00:29:32.239 Town of Plainfield: I can take responsibility for it. 9 is definitely preferred to 5, the amount of work we're talking about. Right, that's what I was thinking. It's like, 9 is definitely preferred. I think I probably even shouldn't have led with 5 to 9. I should have led with 9. I think that's how it's articulated. And, you know, as I read earlier, we have so many committees that are half full of vacancies that are still doing work. 170 00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:33.979 Town of Plainfield: And blessed be. 171 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:57.660 Town of Plainfield: Okay, thank you. And I think the language in the proposal is up to 9, so that way we're not hamstrung where if there's only 7 people, then theoretically they're not… they shouldn't be meeting, or they don't have the full membership. It's to give some space, but I think the 11 was a compromise that folks may remember. Some people came and said we should have a committee of 5 or 7 people. Someone had an idea of a 21-person committee for the EBAC committee. 172 00:29:57.660 --> 00:30:11.660 Town of Plainfield: And it was a compromise of trying to make sure we had enough perspectives without having so many people that it was unruly and hard to deal. And if the early Plainfield Housing Advisory Committee together votes that they want to increase numbers on their committee. 173 00:30:11.800 --> 00:30:27.090 Town of Plainfield: Vote. Yeah. And let us know. It is adaptable. Yeah, Charlie was standing up, but he didn't… Okay, thank you. Charlie Congo. What I'm hearing now sounds like a fatal complete. 174 00:30:27.090 --> 00:30:33.050 Town of Plainfield: We have a proposal on the table that was first circulated, I guess, today. 175 00:30:33.310 --> 00:30:37.180 Town of Plainfield: I would like to see some formal discernment 176 00:30:37.310 --> 00:30:44.669 Town of Plainfield: About that proposal before you start to plan and go back and forth of what the proposal will be. 177 00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:56.319 Town of Plainfield: Discuss what it is now, and please, if you will, make a motion at some point to open the discussion of it, so that the public can hear 178 00:30:56.470 --> 00:31:01.980 Town of Plainfield: What your logic is, what your discernment is, and what your decision is. 179 00:31:02.090 --> 00:31:24.440 Town of Plainfield: And I want to also make a point that the proposals I saw very quickly, and I read it very quickly, has many aspects of the charge to the East Village Advisory Committee. In fact, in verbatim, it has some of the same objectives. And I asked you, what is the relationship between this coming committee 180 00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:28.120 Town of Plainfield: and East Village Advisory Committee. 181 00:31:29.710 --> 00:31:37.900 Town of Plainfield: The relationship is they're both tasked with creating the possibility for housing, 182 00:31:38.150 --> 00:31:45.350 Town of Plainfield: Yeah. EVAC is for a very specific project. This is for any other projects. 183 00:31:45.360 --> 00:32:01.979 Town of Plainfield: To be defined. Yeah, and just so folks out there haven't seen the… we will put this into the minutes of the meeting, obviously, and it is available publicly, Prince Rose shared today, but, it's really just to set out the goals, the role, the scope of work. 184 00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:07.139 Town of Plainfield: The term of the committee, which is indefinite, but then also the term of the individual members. 185 00:32:07.230 --> 00:32:24.489 Town of Plainfield: How co-chairs will be selected, the allowance for working groups, and then just, like, some other things to think about, making sure it's a public process, requiring folks to do open meeting loss training if they're going to be part of the, part of the, 186 00:32:25.070 --> 00:32:31.500 Town of Plainfield: committee, setting up how the first meeting is going to be called by the Select Board, which is the way that we did it. 187 00:32:31.820 --> 00:32:45.120 Town of Plainfield: Yeah, we're trying to… And just to note, to debate this or talk about it, we don't have to have a motion first. We can talk about it. Once we have a motion and a second, we can continue debate, but it's not required that we wait for that charter. 188 00:32:45.470 --> 00:32:46.499 Town of Plainfield: I didn't see it. 189 00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:49.260 Town of Plainfield: You just asked us to make a motion. 190 00:32:49.280 --> 00:33:07.750 Town of Plainfield: I said you could make a motion. That's not what I said. That's not what you said. I am Jake McBride. Michael Bernbaum, you had just, suggested, different ways of getting information out to people, and I guess I just wanted… I felt like I didn't quite get, like, the… 191 00:33:07.750 --> 00:33:20.229 Town of Plainfield: the full closure on that. I guess I'm just curious, like, what all the different ways are, because I'd love to just, like, get that on record, to make sure that it does happen, and all the different avenues, 192 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:33.240 Town of Plainfield: are used to reach all of the people. So I just wanted to kind of get that. Am I not speaking on them? Sorry. Just wanted to get that on record. Like, are we doing… are we putting out posters? Are we sending this out? 193 00:33:33.820 --> 00:33:43.689 Town of Plainfield: via email, yeah, I guess I'm curious, because I get most of my information, through the internet, and I know that a lot of people don't, so just making sure that everyone's getting the information. 194 00:33:43.860 --> 00:33:48.169 Town of Plainfield: Fair question. Do you have some thoughts on what… how to do that? 195 00:33:51.350 --> 00:33:52.610 Town of Plainfield: I did not. 196 00:33:52.740 --> 00:33:55.709 Town of Plainfield: But… I can think on my feet. 197 00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:01.120 Town of Plainfield: I was assuming… 198 00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:10.089 Town of Plainfield: There's two internet ways that people get information. One is playing field people, and the other is from Poached for them, and I'm sure 199 00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:13.569 Town of Plainfield: That those would be good avenues. 200 00:34:15.429 --> 00:34:20.909 Town of Plainfield: There was a proposal not too long ago that I think it was a… 201 00:34:21.060 --> 00:34:27.429 Town of Plainfield: It's actually a plaintro forward that we develop a communication system for the town. 202 00:34:27.980 --> 00:34:33.230 Town of Plainfield: Which would involve a newsletter. It would go out periodically to all the… 203 00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:42.009 Town of Plainfield: of the residents in the town. I think that it's a wonderful idea that should be pursued. I don't expect that could happen this quickly. 204 00:34:42.010 --> 00:34:57.660 Town of Plainfield: But you'd see that as a mailer rather than electronic. Mailer. Yeah, okay. So it would reach people who aren't… Right. Even people who use the internet, many don't use it the way some of us do. Right, right. And it's another better way of reaching people. 205 00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:04.489 Town of Plainfield: Check the poster's a good idea. Yeah, posters, yeah? Sure, 206 00:35:05.150 --> 00:35:08.929 Town of Plainfield: I just was urging the select board to… 207 00:35:09.430 --> 00:35:16.359 Town of Plainfield: be diligent at getting the word out, and I didn't have specific plans or ideas for that. 208 00:35:16.470 --> 00:35:24.460 Town of Plainfield: I'm sure we can brainstorm some more if we need to. Well, I think the ones you came up with are probably pretty much what we… And I will say, for anything that we're… 209 00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:45.550 Town of Plainfield: for issues like this, on top of what you just mentioned, as far as, like, digital, posting on our town website, maybe posting hard copies around town, we do have a small list of folks who have let us know that they don't do electronic stuff, and they prefer things to be mailed to them, and so this is something that we could certainly mail to those folks, and we've actually, as part of 210 00:35:45.550 --> 00:36:04.800 Town of Plainfield: the, mailer that went out around the vote in November asked for folks to reach out to the… to us, to the Accessibility Committee, if they wanted to be added to that list, if mail is the way that they get, they get correspondence, that they can add themselves to this list, and so we can give it to self-selected people who use mail as the… 211 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:06.650 Town of Plainfield: Form of communication that they prefer. 212 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:17.270 Town of Plainfield: So, before I sit down, as long as I mentioned this, was the Select Board aware of that suggestion that came out of Plainfield Forward about a newsletter? 213 00:36:17.450 --> 00:36:24.680 Town of Plainfield: No. No? I remember the discussion. I didn't remember anyone volunteering to write it. 214 00:36:24.850 --> 00:36:30.150 Town of Plainfield: That would be great, yeah. I think that's something that… 215 00:36:30.270 --> 00:36:35.819 Town of Plainfield: to select what she pursue, and if not, maybe I'd talk if it hadn't done. 216 00:36:37.190 --> 00:36:49.829 Town of Plainfield: I mean, I would add posting on the bulletin board, on the town office would be another place I'd like to see it, and just to, you know, share the responsibility of it. Message relay. 217 00:36:50.160 --> 00:36:57.520 Town of Plainfield: You're hearing the message. Help relay it on, and on and on and on, until it reaches the ears who need to hear it. 218 00:36:58.970 --> 00:37:06.080 Town of Plainfield: Hi, I'm John Broderick. Just wanted to make a suggestion that might be unpopular, but… 219 00:37:06.140 --> 00:37:26.840 Town of Plainfield: The Select Board does not have to take action on this, doesn't have to formalize the committee. Council on Rural Development has been doing this community visit process for decades, and often come up with housing as the main issue in the town, but doesn't always mean that an ad hoc committee can't do the same thing, and in fact, might even have more flexibility. 220 00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:39.649 Town of Plainfield: Look, what it's going to come down to is a lot of individual conversations with property owners, and some will be cooperative, and some will not even pick up the phone, and is that all going to be subject to the Open Meetings Law? Because that might 221 00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:55.550 Town of Plainfield: inhibit some of those conversations. So, I just wanted to suggest that ad hoc committees, ad hoc working groups, might be just as effective because they have been in other communities. Thanks. Thanks, John. Thank you. I would just say that the… 222 00:37:55.560 --> 00:38:00.289 Town of Plainfield: Previous ad hoc committee was criticized because it was not 223 00:38:00.430 --> 00:38:11.550 Town of Plainfield: open to everybody. What we tried to do with the EVAC committee was to make sure it was on record and open. And that would be the same with this, I believe. 224 00:38:11.700 --> 00:38:20.410 Town of Plainfield: And then if there were 9 people on the committee, that would mean 4 people from that committee could be interacting with landowners. 225 00:38:20.550 --> 00:38:24.009 Town of Plainfield: Outside of the record of open meeting. 226 00:38:24.330 --> 00:38:33.229 Town of Plainfield: Right. Just to name that as a… it doesn't close off that possibility completely, but I take your point, John, thank you. And as you pointed out earlier, the, there's always… 227 00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:47.899 Town of Plainfield: groups that can be volunteers to support an organization that's developed. Yeah, totally. Send work groups out. Yeah. So I had a conversation with Francis Rose back 3 weeks ago, maybe? 4 weeks ago? 228 00:38:48.100 --> 00:38:51.899 Town of Plainfield: On that topic, and perhaps… 229 00:38:53.070 --> 00:38:56.299 Town of Plainfield: We didn't say it this way, but perhaps a hybrid 230 00:38:56.510 --> 00:39:13.290 Town of Plainfield: solution is the best one. There's a select board sanctioned committee, but the working groups are not considered subcommittees, but ad hoc working groups that work with the committee. That would free them 231 00:39:13.870 --> 00:39:25.150 Town of Plainfield: to behave the way John's talking about. Yeah, and that's the EDF model that we… I, I freaked out when I thought we were gonna have a bunch of subcommittees that we were gonna have to manage on the one… 232 00:39:25.150 --> 00:39:47.879 Town of Plainfield: town Zoom, account, five subcommittees, plus EVAC, plus all the other committees that exist in town. So, that is the way the EVAC works, is those are add-on subgroups, they're working groups. What the Select Corps is looking for is a point… point people, you know, one or two people, three people, who… who can represent what the committee's doing, so we can 233 00:39:47.940 --> 00:40:06.770 Town of Plainfield: get information and make decisions based on the information we're getting. So, if you have ad hoc committees as, you know, under the umbrella of the formal organization, then we have the formal, and we have the work getting done behind the scenes. But to be clear, I want to make a distinction between 234 00:40:07.410 --> 00:40:13.890 Town of Plainfield: The original ad hoc steering committee for the stage expansion, and what we're talking about now. 235 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:17.439 Town of Plainfield: Even if they're ad hoc. 236 00:40:17.820 --> 00:40:20.660 Town of Plainfield: Proofs. They should be truly open. 237 00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:22.840 Town of Plainfield: And, 238 00:40:24.630 --> 00:40:37.350 Town of Plainfield: With minutes and warnings? No, no, no, that would not make no ad hoc. That takes away the ad hoc nature of it. But they should not be exclusive in any way, they should take any input that anyone offers them. 239 00:40:37.630 --> 00:40:54.059 Town of Plainfield: And I think that is going to be for the committee writ large to weigh in on. But yeah, I mean, that's what we're… that's what we are imagining, is that this is a place for many people take that into account. Many, many significant importance to a lot of us. 240 00:40:54.160 --> 00:41:02.410 Town of Plainfield: Okay, thanks. Karen? Karen Hatcher, a good model for this is the grants group. 241 00:41:02.510 --> 00:41:11.299 Town of Plainfield: So, I am appointed grants administrator, but the grants group is a work group, and each grant gets 242 00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:26.970 Town of Plainfield: a work group, because there's no way that one person could do all that. And we don't… we do keep minutes, you know, we do keep, we are open, we want people to participate, but we recognize that, you know, you need work groups to actually get work done. 243 00:41:27.070 --> 00:41:38.560 Town of Plainfield: And so, there's been, you know, a lot of public process where we've informed, you know, where we've made sure we're sharing what's going on, and we're reporting back to the board, but, 244 00:41:38.560 --> 00:41:51.949 Town of Plainfield: that evolved… that came about pretty organically, because of the recovery need, right? But it's worked really well, because the people who have the expertise are… are coming into those groups 245 00:41:52.310 --> 00:42:07.169 Town of Plainfield: you know, like, George Springsten is in the group now for the… this Great Brook study, right? Michael and George, and and a couple of other folks, but it's like, so that model does work really nicely, and it's, it's not… 246 00:42:07.820 --> 00:42:15.470 Town of Plainfield: particularly cumbersome. I just want to offer it as… we've done it, so it does work. Thank you for that perspective. I think that's a… that is a good example. 247 00:42:21.070 --> 00:42:24.359 Town of Plainfield: Any other thoughts from the audience? 248 00:42:24.580 --> 00:42:31.599 Town of Plainfield: Next steps for us. Can I make a motion to create a Housing Advisory Committee with the mandate listed in the document above? 249 00:42:32.110 --> 00:42:36.759 Town of Plainfield: Second. Any further discussion? 250 00:42:37.500 --> 00:42:42.069 Town of Plainfield: All those in favor, say aye. Aye. 251 00:42:42.870 --> 00:42:53.420 Town of Plainfield: Opposed? And we should point out that Peter's not here. He's no doubt sipping tea in Japan right now. 252 00:42:54.650 --> 00:43:02.690 Town of Plainfield: He's probably sleeping right now, because it's in the middle of the night. Oh, maybe it's tomorrow morning, it might be tomorrow morning. Point taken. 253 00:43:02.950 --> 00:43:07.839 Town of Plainfield: Okay, so, we should probably set up a meeting, 254 00:43:08.100 --> 00:43:16.260 Town of Plainfield: to get this organized. You talked about the organizational meeting. Well, we gotta… I think we've got to have one or two of us 255 00:43:16.340 --> 00:43:32.249 Town of Plainfield: create the process for getting candidates. Okay. And then we gotta advertise, and then we gotta bring that back to the whole group to then make appointments. Right. Yeah. So I don't know, Prince Rose, if you and I want to work on getting a form together and… Sure. …getting it. 256 00:43:32.250 --> 00:43:38.529 Town of Plainfield: promoted? Yeah, that sounds good. That'd be great, if you guys… you did it last time, it would work well. 257 00:43:39.690 --> 00:43:42.049 Town of Plainfield: So that'd be the next step. 258 00:43:43.220 --> 00:43:49.830 Town of Plainfield: And anyone, obviously, out there who's interested in joining this advisory committee should… 259 00:43:50.200 --> 00:43:52.700 Town of Plainfield: Come forward to one of the select members, and… 260 00:43:53.060 --> 00:43:56.180 Town of Plainfield: We'll, we'll make note of it and make a list. 261 00:43:58.590 --> 00:44:13.749 Town of Plainfield: Can we do that right now? Yes. I think there's several people here who are interested, and… You can put up your hands. Would you like to? Yeah, I'm one of them. Okay. As I said months ago, and 262 00:44:15.160 --> 00:44:22.429 Town of Plainfield: follow the process and participate as I can. Any other hands in the room? 263 00:44:23.630 --> 00:44:25.550 Town of Plainfield: Bunch of people, great. 264 00:44:26.420 --> 00:44:27.950 Town of Plainfield: Hello? 265 00:44:33.600 --> 00:44:43.480 Town of Plainfield: You're interested in the… Yeah, go ahead. No, I think… Volunteering. Oh, volunteering, okay. You got that, Francis? Yeah. I got, 266 00:44:44.330 --> 00:44:46.779 Town of Plainfield: David, Janiece, Alana. 267 00:44:46.780 --> 00:44:47.600 Genese Grill: And also… 268 00:44:47.600 --> 00:44:52.350 Town of Plainfield: Becky, Tammy, and who… I just heard a voice. I did say Janiece. 269 00:44:52.350 --> 00:44:53.890 Genese Grill: Yeah, Liz… Liz… 270 00:44:54.220 --> 00:44:58.499 Genese Grill: No, Liz Bicknell has asked me to put her name forward, she can't be here tonight. 271 00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:01.010 Town of Plainfield: Oh, okay. Liz, pick my own… 272 00:45:01.010 --> 00:45:02.830 Genese Grill: And myself as well. Thank you. 273 00:45:02.860 --> 00:45:06.189 Town of Plainfield: Thank you. Did… did I see your hand, Michael? 274 00:45:07.450 --> 00:45:09.210 Town of Plainfield: Here's a, comment. 275 00:45:10.510 --> 00:45:24.139 Town of Plainfield: Yes. I'll name those who are interested. I mean, we're just gathering as a… I mean, we're gonna put out a form and everything, I don't know that we need to… Yeah, we don't need a full list, but if people are here and they want to jump in, that's great. 276 00:45:25.120 --> 00:45:33.579 Town of Plainfield: Those who have, offered their names here will get direct reach-outs into their inbox. No need to sift through the front porch floor. 277 00:45:35.390 --> 00:45:41.169 Town of Plainfield: Okay, I think that's… that's where we're gonna leave it then for now, right? Yeah. 278 00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:44.889 Town of Plainfield: Thank you, Wal. 279 00:45:46.190 --> 00:45:53.559 Town of Plainfield: Flood study… Grant authorization with Rose? Is Rose here? Yes. Oh yeah, there she is. 280 00:45:54.080 --> 00:46:02.199 Rose Paul: Yeah, I wasn't sure if you meant flood study, or if you meant the Better Connections Transportation Grant. 281 00:46:02.200 --> 00:46:04.739 Town of Plainfield: That is what we mean. I think that's what we're meaning. 282 00:46:04.740 --> 00:46:05.450 Rose Paul: Okay. 283 00:46:06.120 --> 00:46:08.079 Town of Plainfield: Is that good? 284 00:46:08.080 --> 00:46:12.190 Rose Paul: Much better, because I can't speak to the flood study. 285 00:46:14.610 --> 00:46:16.380 Rose Paul: So, 286 00:46:16.610 --> 00:46:27.579 Rose Paul: I want to thank the Select Board for authorizing me to apply for a Better Connections grant, and maybe I should quickly explain it, because a lot of people haven't heard of it, but… 287 00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:37.100 Rose Paul: It's, funded by the Agency of Transportation and the Agency of Commerce and Community Development jointly. 288 00:46:37.240 --> 00:46:42.600 Rose Paul: They fund master plans for a village and downtown 289 00:46:42.870 --> 00:46:52.610 Rose Paul: bicycle and pedestrian connectivity and safety, broadly. It's a pretty, standard grant package. 290 00:46:52.890 --> 00:46:54.360 Rose Paul: they award… 291 00:46:55.060 --> 00:47:07.709 Rose Paul: $67,500 to a successful applicant, and the applicant is supposed to come up with a 10% match, which amounts to $7,500. 292 00:47:08.160 --> 00:47:09.070 Town of Plainfield: So… 293 00:47:09.190 --> 00:47:17.310 Rose Paul: I got the grant application in on time on October 31st, And… 294 00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:23.740 Rose Paul: At the time that the Select Board authorized me to kind of go for it. 295 00:47:23.890 --> 00:47:31.480 Rose Paul: I told you all that I would inquire with the Conservation Commission whether 296 00:47:31.960 --> 00:47:35.380 Rose Paul: The matching money could come out of the conservation fund. 297 00:47:36.090 --> 00:47:53.560 Rose Paul: So then, since that time, the Conservation Commission had a meeting, and we looked at the guidelines for the Conservation Fund, and we realized it's not an appropriate use, sorry, to say. It was a unanimous decision, that it wasn't a good match, or it wasn't a mesh. 298 00:47:53.700 --> 00:47:54.300 Rose Paul: So… 299 00:47:54.860 --> 00:48:04.679 Rose Paul: If we are awarded this grant, and they only award two per year, we will know on December 1st. 300 00:48:04.900 --> 00:48:11.489 Rose Paul: And… And… The town would have to come up with a $7,500 match. 301 00:48:11.810 --> 00:48:15.150 Rose Paul: Although, I don't know how quickly. 302 00:48:15.490 --> 00:48:24.019 Rose Paul: The town would have to do that, because they allot one year for the project to be run. 303 00:48:24.340 --> 00:48:29.370 Rose Paul: And… They… they say the project would start March 1st. 304 00:48:30.380 --> 00:48:32.850 Rose Paul: And go through the following February. 305 00:48:34.630 --> 00:48:36.920 Rose Paul: And… Although… 306 00:48:37.470 --> 00:48:46.859 Rose Paul: the agencies, the state agencies want the grant agreement to be signed and sent in by December 5th. 307 00:48:47.190 --> 00:48:56.159 Rose Paul: So there isn't a lot of time between finding out whether we get it on December 1st, and then having to sign some grant paperwork 308 00:48:56.450 --> 00:48:58.800 Rose Paul: And getting it back December 5th. 309 00:48:59.070 --> 00:49:04.959 Rose Paul: So, I guess that's my update for you, and, I also would like to know if… 310 00:49:05.580 --> 00:49:13.119 Rose Paul: Since this is a grant on behalf of the town, if the grant application should be posted on the town website somewhere… 311 00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:18.339 Town of Plainfield: Put it on the grants page if you want. 312 00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:23.600 Town of Plainfield: I'm interested in… can you describe briefly what… 313 00:49:23.720 --> 00:49:29.460 Town of Plainfield: What items, what actions would be part of this, or is that to come with a plan? 314 00:49:29.800 --> 00:49:35.269 Town of Plainfield: In other words, we talked about trails, we talked about sidewalks, we talked about that sort of thing. 315 00:49:35.570 --> 00:49:37.769 Rose Paul: Yeah, yep, Carl. 316 00:49:38.070 --> 00:49:44.749 Rose Paul: The grant funds a consultant who works with the town to develop a master plan. 317 00:49:44.750 --> 00:49:45.640 Town of Plainfield: Kurt. 318 00:49:45.640 --> 00:49:50.310 Rose Paul: Like, traffic calming, bicycle and pedestrian safety. 319 00:49:50.500 --> 00:49:55.089 Rose Paul: But they expect the town to form a steering committee. 320 00:49:55.240 --> 00:49:59.960 Rose Paul: And to conduct a lot of public outreach around this topic. 321 00:50:00.940 --> 00:50:05.940 Rose Paul: And so, based on what townfolk Say they want. 322 00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:07.500 Town of Plainfield: That… 323 00:50:07.500 --> 00:50:18.229 Rose Paul: Is what gets, Yep, you're good. That's just the elevator going, so… 324 00:50:18.700 --> 00:50:20.510 Rose Paul: Oh, okay, sorry, wasn't sure what 325 00:50:22.500 --> 00:50:29.200 Rose Paul: It really becomes a very public process, but the way the grant is written. 326 00:50:30.150 --> 00:50:30.700 Town of Plainfield: that… 327 00:50:30.700 --> 00:50:31.470 Rose Paul: the geographic. 328 00:50:31.470 --> 00:50:32.000 Town of Plainfield: like, scope. 329 00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:47.380 Rose Paul: of the project would be from, really, Lower East Hill and Brook Road, where new housing, new park land may be created, through the Lower Village to the Upper Village, so Route 2… 330 00:50:47.450 --> 00:50:48.750 Town of Plainfield: Particularly. 331 00:50:49.170 --> 00:50:52.980 Rose Paul: along, the Upper Village, and… 332 00:50:53.250 --> 00:51:03.430 Rose Paul: coming out of the Plainfield Forward Forum, folks said that they were interested in an off-road path to get out to the co-op. 333 00:51:03.670 --> 00:51:08.680 Rose Paul: So, the geographic scope includes all the way out to the co-op. 334 00:51:09.200 --> 00:51:17.600 Rose Paul: and up Route 14, north a little bit to the entrance to, the Creative Campus at Goddard. 335 00:51:18.650 --> 00:51:32.800 Rose Paul: So, that's all the area that would be encompassed, and, you know, what the solutions are is kind of up to the town, working with a consultant, but we could show you some traffic calming, we could use 336 00:51:33.340 --> 00:51:37.800 Rose Paul: Sidewalks on both sides of Route 2. That's a tall order. 337 00:51:37.970 --> 00:51:52.220 Rose Paul: people ask for an off-road route to get out to the co-op, not having to go en route to. Before the grant was written, Carl, representing the Select Board and myself. 338 00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:53.969 Town of Plainfield: met with… 339 00:51:54.650 --> 00:52:03.770 Rose Paul: folks from the Creative Campus at Goddard, and they're very interested in being kind of a geographic hub for this kind of connectivity. 340 00:52:04.240 --> 00:52:12.669 Rose Paul: So that, that was a very positive meeting, so that, that's broadly my sketch. Maybe I, I should… Yeah, great. …if you have questions. 341 00:52:13.350 --> 00:52:14.710 Town of Plainfield: Yeah, that's great. 342 00:52:14.710 --> 00:52:39.589 Town of Plainfield: I should say, it wasn't a little grant, it was 24 pages, as I remember. So, thank you for that. Karen Hatcher, I also want to thank Rose for doing that work, and just suggest that the grants administration page might be a good place if you want to post the, grant application. There's a whole bunch of them at the bottom, so Rose, that's my 343 00:52:39.590 --> 00:52:42.830 Town of Plainfield: a good place to put it, to help… Okay, thank you. 344 00:52:42.830 --> 00:52:43.990 Rose Paul: I'll follow up. 345 00:52:43.990 --> 00:52:44.979 Town of Plainfield: Huh? Okay. 346 00:52:45.910 --> 00:52:51.610 Town of Plainfield: And again, we're looking for folks who might want to sit in on that, right, Rose? If we get it. If we get it. 347 00:52:51.610 --> 00:52:51.990 Rose Paul: Yeah. 348 00:52:52.950 --> 00:53:02.560 Town of Plainfield: Rose the amounts? So, the grant would award $67,500, and then the town would owe $7,500, is that right? 349 00:53:02.560 --> 00:53:03.490 Rose Paul: That's right. 350 00:53:03.490 --> 00:53:05.719 Town of Plainfield: And, 351 00:53:06.430 --> 00:53:13.919 Town of Plainfield: But that's something we may have to decide quickly, it sounds like, if we were to be awarded the grant. Or do we have to make that decision? 352 00:53:14.450 --> 00:53:15.529 Town of Plainfield: Before that. 353 00:53:18.520 --> 00:53:28.559 Town of Plainfield: We don't… we don't have… do we have any sense from the treasurer, or what? We probably haven't asked the treasurer to look into it. - we could. 354 00:53:28.640 --> 00:53:43.890 Town of Plainfield: The grant that Rose has put in may require a $7,500 match. And so, is that something we can look into to see how that would be done? Yeah, I've got that now. Okay, great. Okay. 355 00:53:44.540 --> 00:53:49.640 Rose Paul: I'm sorry, Carl, there's one more thing I forgot to mention, which is. 356 00:53:49.860 --> 00:53:52.690 Town of Plainfield: in consultation with Carl, it seemed like. 357 00:53:52.860 --> 00:53:56.689 Rose Paul: Our town didn't really have the bandwidth to administer the grant. 358 00:53:57.200 --> 00:53:58.840 Rose Paul: Financially. 359 00:53:59.370 --> 00:54:08.599 Rose Paul: And so this… this grant has a provision that the Regional Planning Commission can do that kind of administrative support. 360 00:54:09.130 --> 00:54:20.409 Rose Paul: for, a 10% fee off the top of the grant, and so they have agreed, the regional commission has agreed, and that's how the grant was written. 361 00:54:21.310 --> 00:54:22.310 Town of Plainfield: Right. 362 00:54:28.610 --> 00:54:30.420 Town of Plainfield: Okay, any questions? 363 00:54:33.750 --> 00:54:36.580 Town of Plainfield: Thank you, Rose, again. Thank you, Rose. 364 00:54:36.890 --> 00:54:38.589 Rose Paul: Welcome. Fingers crossed. 365 00:54:39.310 --> 00:54:40.490 Town of Plainfield: Mmm. 366 00:54:42.710 --> 00:54:47.439 Town of Plainfield: Okay, the LHMP final draft review and adoption. 367 00:54:59.270 --> 00:55:01.049 Town of Plainfield: Hi, I'm Sue. 368 00:55:01.240 --> 00:55:02.500 Town of Plainfield: Last name still? 369 00:55:02.630 --> 00:55:12.200 Town of Plainfield: Rowland. And I'm Michael Billingsley, the Emergency Management Director, and also the Vice Chair of the Hazard Mitigation Committee. 370 00:55:12.390 --> 00:55:21.440 Town of Plainfield: I think what I wanted to do in terms of what are we even talking about, to do a very brief introduction, talking about a local hazard mitigation plan. 371 00:55:21.510 --> 00:55:39.249 Town of Plainfield: actually doesn't come out of nowhere. This is the third big one that we've done. One was done in 2015, one was done in 2020, and one is being completed now. These are big documents, and one of the things that's really helpful for people to understand 372 00:55:39.500 --> 00:55:46.180 Town of Plainfield: is that hazard mitigation, as a general term, means looking ahead to anything bad that can happen to us. 373 00:55:46.310 --> 00:55:53.419 Town of Plainfield: And trying to determine what strategies we could employ so that they didn't happen to us as badly. 374 00:55:53.650 --> 00:55:59.810 Town of Plainfield: to improve our chances of coming out without harm. And so, it covers a lot of territory. 375 00:56:00.190 --> 00:56:17.819 Town of Plainfield: And there is a lot of institutional knowledge and involvement. Like, for instance, we talked earlier about a couple of grants, one of which is to study the Great Cook. Well, that's a $220,000 grant, which was put forward as a hazard mitigation strategy last August when the funding group was talking about. 376 00:56:17.820 --> 00:56:22.809 Town of Plainfield: How are we going to deal with whether Great Brook should be, the Brook Road should be rebuilt or not? 377 00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:29.260 Town of Plainfield: Well, that's a hazard mitigation strategy to determine where and how the brick road can be rebuilt. 378 00:56:29.300 --> 00:56:53.610 Town of Plainfield: And similarly, in January, another hazard mitigation study was begun by the Agency of Natural Resources at our request, about $30,000 worth of work. And that was to determine how we could keep the neighborhood in the bottom of Great Brook, around where the Mill Street and Brookly Road intersection is, from being badly damaged the next time we have a flood, which could be as soon as April. 379 00:56:54.030 --> 00:57:04.599 Town of Plainfield: Or many. So, hazard mitigation involves a lot of institutional knowledge. We've had a hazard mitigation committee since 2011, which Bram helped 380 00:57:04.850 --> 00:57:12.460 Town of Plainfield: Put together, and has had a lot of community involvement, and a lot of expertise, river engineers, and, 381 00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:31.510 Town of Plainfield: geologists and folks who are environmental scientists have all contributed, and this has been building and building and building. So this… this report is on the heels of the 2020 hazard mitigation Report, which was put together partially by Sasha. And so what we have here 382 00:57:31.890 --> 00:57:33.350 Town of Plainfield: is, 383 00:57:34.370 --> 00:57:52.349 Town of Plainfield: We're looking at what happened in the last 5 years. How well did we mitigate hazards? So the first part of the report is actually looking at what we've done in the last 5 years to take care of the hazards that we have had, and that would look at primarily anything that was identified then, which was flooding, alluvial erosion. 384 00:57:52.510 --> 00:58:00.450 Town of Plainfield: landslides, and, wildfires and other hazards, in a general way, other hazards. So. 385 00:58:00.650 --> 00:58:09.580 Town of Plainfield: This big work that came up to us was, first of all, looking backwards, then looking at exactly now what just happened to us. What happened to us in the last two years? A lot of big stuff. 386 00:58:09.720 --> 00:58:20.229 Town of Plainfield: Terrible stuff. And then, how do we use our experience of the last 5 years to plan the next 5 years, and how we use our resources, how we invite help. 387 00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:34.629 Town of Plainfield: How we get people to, be aware of how they can reduce harm to themselves is a really important part, is you have community participation, because if you know how to evacuate when the water is rising, you're not going to be a casualty. 388 00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:41.129 Town of Plainfield: If you know how… what direction to go, if you're told that there's a forest fire happening on one side of the town. 389 00:58:41.260 --> 00:58:45.670 Town of Plainfield: That means you're going to probably be safer than if you didn't have such a plan. 390 00:58:46.740 --> 00:59:00.260 Town of Plainfield: Just to fill out team introductions. I'm seeing Denise Wheeler online. Yeah, I was gonna… Okay, great, just making sure. Thank you. So, what I wanted to, say is that… 391 00:59:01.120 --> 00:59:02.590 Town of Plainfield: We are… 392 00:59:02.840 --> 00:59:20.140 Town of Plainfield: have a ton of expertise here. Not everybody knows of the work we're doing in the background, but it has the hazard mitigation community started 6 months ago working on this, so there'd be Maggie there. And then, Keith Cupin of the Central Mountain Regional Planning Commission stepped in, and 393 00:59:20.410 --> 00:59:39.700 Town of Plainfield: did this great big sketch of basically all the different parts that had to be there, and then we filled in the blanks, primarily Silk, Grelin, and myself, and then ultimately, contributions from Denise Wheeler, who's the Emergency Management Coordinator. And so, what we have is 394 00:59:39.700 --> 00:59:52.270 Town of Plainfield: A basic team of 3 people, plus central and non-regional planning, plus anybody else who stepped in or became part of the hazard medication meetings where we talked about this in advance. So very quickly, I'm going to run down the list and finish here. 395 00:59:52.710 --> 01:00:04.930 Town of Plainfield: We identified, with the help of the public, we had 43… was it? 43 people who actually contributed to surveys and helped tell us what they thought were the most important hazards. 396 01:00:04.930 --> 01:00:28.470 Town of Plainfield: And then the Hazard Mitigation Committee, put in its own experience. And so, on the top, like, the high priority and, highest impact events included flooding, obviously, but also landslides, dam failure, drought, wind damage, damaging wind, I should say, ice storms and ice jams, infectious disease and pandemics. 397 01:00:28.520 --> 01:00:40.610 Town of Plainfield: and electric blackouts. So, who knew we were working on that? But we have been. And, then in a medium probability or impact, it's a combination of both that helps score it. We have extreme heat. 398 01:00:40.690 --> 01:00:44.430 Town of Plainfield: Extreme cold. Wildfires and brush fires. 399 01:00:44.460 --> 01:00:47.479 Town of Plainfield: Wildfire smoke inhalation and, and, 400 01:00:47.490 --> 01:00:52.190 Town of Plainfield: Haze. Smoke, excuse me, snow and blizzard conditions. 401 01:00:52.190 --> 01:01:13.839 Town of Plainfield: and cloudbursts and hail conditions. And then lastly, at the low, impact or low probability, not necessarily both, but we have invasive species, earthquakes, and solar storms and coronal mass ejections, which we're going to have one tomorrow, actually. We're gonna have a coronal mass ejection that will be hitting us from a solar storm that happened 3 days ago. 402 01:01:14.030 --> 01:01:26.420 Town of Plainfield: So then, what we're really trying to figure out in this big document, which I urge you to be familiar with, it has a lot of statistics in it, a lot of information, tables. 403 01:01:26.420 --> 01:01:39.830 Town of Plainfield: hit, demographics and, a lot of predictive stuff, plus some interesting appendices. We're going to have it up on the website for people to read. We're also going to have paper copies at the town clerk's office for people to read. 404 01:01:39.830 --> 01:01:47.999 Town of Plainfield: And you can ask any of us on the Hazard Mitigation Committee or any emergency management if you have questions when they come up as you're reading them. 405 01:01:48.050 --> 01:01:49.939 Town of Plainfield: So… 406 01:01:50.010 --> 01:02:00.200 Town of Plainfield: We need to know what the hazards are, we need to know the history of the hazards, we need to have impact studies, and the report is broken up into multiple impact studies by category. 407 01:02:00.460 --> 01:02:05.849 Town of Plainfield: And then, what are our mitigation strategies for the next 5 years? In other words, guiding the town. 408 01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:22.530 Town of Plainfield: Do we want to encourage people who live in the floodplain to move to someplace that isn't as endangered? As an example, that's a mitigation strategy. And then, statistical analysis is being done all along with the help of Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission. 409 01:02:22.530 --> 01:02:34.819 Town of Plainfield: And then we have to maintain the plan, which is to say, come back to it in a year, see if it needs a revision, and in 5 years, it has to be rewritten again to take into account to what we do between now and 2030. So… 410 01:02:34.820 --> 01:02:46.469 Town of Plainfield: That's the plan we're putting forward. The Select Board has read it. We've got some comments, I think. Not very many comments, but at any rate, the Select Board has had it to read, and it's… 411 01:02:46.500 --> 01:02:55.579 Town of Plainfield: About 60 pages plus a ton of appendices, and it's going to be, publicly available shortly after we go through the approval process. 412 01:02:55.770 --> 01:02:58.630 Town of Plainfield: It's 2… about 2 weeks from now, probably. 413 01:02:58.850 --> 01:03:18.689 Town of Plainfield: And if you have any questions or comments, please save them now, and Syl will be available to answer them. Sasha? I just want to thank you, Michael. You have put so much work into all of this. I think you've just been such a resource to the town. I really appreciate it. 414 01:03:22.560 --> 01:03:34.120 Town of Plainfield: I definitely could not have done it without Soph, I have to tell you. She has been absolutely inexpensive. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, tremendous amount of work. No specific questions from me, but, 415 01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:38.970 Town of Plainfield: But it, it sounds like what I was reading through at the, the, 416 01:03:39.370 --> 01:03:51.659 Town of Plainfield: the thought process of going through each possible scenario, is pretty interesting, and you have to really look ahead best you can to all the things that can happen. And, 417 01:03:51.660 --> 01:04:05.680 Town of Plainfield: I don't know how you keep your good attitude, thinking about disasters all the time, but anyway. Anybody who wants to be the next emergency management director, that's probably a basic qualification, that you have to have a pretty good attitude. 418 01:04:05.750 --> 01:04:08.759 Town of Plainfield: Any questions from the board? 419 01:04:08.980 --> 01:04:18.190 Town of Plainfield: Something super specific about the plan to add, like Michael said, this is, like, not a fixed plan, it's a live plan, so there will be, kind of. 420 01:04:18.190 --> 01:04:37.329 Town of Plainfield: edits available over time, like in yearly installments of updating the plan. And it includes specific mitigation actions that our town wants to actually accomplish in the next 5 years. If anyone's interested, I highly recommend, like Michael said, it'll be posted on the website, and if you find something wrong, or an error, or you want to add something. 421 01:04:37.650 --> 01:04:52.939 Town of Plainfield: we can do that before we turn it in. Once we turn it in, it's not turned in and done forever. We're able to constantly edit. But I highly recommend looking at those actual actions that, like, we have decided as a planning group and as, like. 422 01:04:53.160 --> 01:04:55.729 Town of Plainfield: an expertise community. 423 01:04:55.910 --> 01:04:57.620 Town of Plainfield: Yeah. 424 01:04:58.060 --> 01:05:04.439 Town of Plainfield: I had… I had just one thought. This summer, we were in a pretty severe drought, and… 425 01:05:04.750 --> 01:05:12.900 Town of Plainfield: I never think of forest fires for Vermont, but we were in the midst of something that could have been a real disaster, so… 426 01:05:12.900 --> 01:05:29.410 Town of Plainfield: But that's all part of the report, and I'm just curious about the firefighting… I mean, our own local crews can only do so much, they can't do a lot. Is there, like, a way to connect to the national firefighting folks, if that was an issue? 427 01:05:29.660 --> 01:05:52.609 Town of Plainfield: There's several ways to answer that, but quickly, I will just say that our fire chief had come in, given us some of his time to speak to the Hazard Mitigation Committee, and then we put out in advance of any dry period of time, and when it was actually dry, strategies that people could put into place at their homes. For instance, if you brush back from your house, like, at least 60 feet, and to, 428 01:05:52.660 --> 01:06:07.120 Town of Plainfield: have an evacuation route plan, and have a safe destination that is in it, not surrounded by forest, obviously. And, so we are putting in strategies, and you will find some of those in the plan itself. Great. 429 01:06:07.240 --> 01:06:09.190 Town of Plainfield: Jared? 430 01:06:09.630 --> 01:06:24.179 Town of Plainfield: I want to just say that by having this plan, what Michael and Syl have done is positioned the town to access grants at a higher level. This really just… it's a question that gets asked, you know, how prepared 431 01:06:24.180 --> 01:06:43.660 Town of Plainfield: are we, especially around the recovery grants, and so this work is really important. And it probably can affect insurance, I would think. I don't… I'm not an expert on it, but if insurance folks know that there are plans to be safe and minimize damage and so on, that's got to be beneficial to them. 432 01:06:43.770 --> 01:06:48.329 Town of Plainfield: So that's it. There's, there's, there's that, and in other words, if you're… if you don't… 433 01:06:48.590 --> 01:06:58.550 Town of Plainfield: if you don't show that you're thinking about it, obviously you're being a little bit laid back, and that does not impress insurance people. The other thing I should say is that 434 01:06:58.760 --> 01:07:13.160 Town of Plainfield: when we brought this to the attention of the Select Board about 6 months ago, when we first got the timeframe in which it was due this time, we did say that we were reminded that if we get it done. 435 01:07:13.260 --> 01:07:25.749 Town of Plainfield: our FEMA funding comes through. If we don't get it done, our FEMA funding for both, the projects like removing the batch over dam, or even having house buyouts do not come through. This is an important 436 01:07:25.750 --> 01:07:41.820 Town of Plainfield: document that the federal government and that the… particularly the state emergency planning people use for their reference as they work with us. Yeah, thank you for that reminder. Yes, with that said, I'd like to make a motion to adopt the local hazard mitigation Plan. 437 01:07:42.020 --> 01:07:43.460 Town of Plainfield: I second that. 438 01:07:44.750 --> 01:08:04.400 Town of Plainfield: There is a point of order. They said it was going to be on their website, and whether there are any corrections, but corrections can't be made after it's adopted? Yes. So does it make sense to wait for the next meeting to adopt it? I think they need it before the next meeting. Well, I'm just thinking, you might want to be certain about that, in terms of… Well, they also said we can make modifications to it 439 01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:13.440 Town of Plainfield: going forward, right? Well, and Michael has shared this with the Select Board individually to look at and comment before this meeting tonight as well. 440 01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:38.499 Town of Plainfield: Yeah, the major part of the plan that actually needs to be adopted by the Select Board is mainly the mitigation actions and the structure of the plan. So little edits can happen after the adoption, and that's part of it, and that's part of the FEMA guidelines that are given to us when we make the plan. So those little edits are always welcome to happen after the adoption. 441 01:08:38.500 --> 01:08:46.290 Town of Plainfield: I hope that's clear for both of these groups. Yeah. I would ask, Denise Wheeler, do you have anything to share or add to the conversation? 442 01:08:47.450 --> 01:08:55.259 Denise Wheeler: No, cell did a fantastic job, Michael's amazing, and I'm getting up to speed. 443 01:08:55.569 --> 01:08:57.979 Town of Plainfield: Fantastic, thank you. 444 01:08:58.299 --> 01:09:03.009 Town of Plainfield: I should also add that we have been asked to get this 445 01:09:03.009 --> 01:09:26.299 Town of Plainfield: to our, to the state before Thanksgiving, and the timing of this request tonight is to be sure that we can get all the appendices attached and get the whole document whipped together, which would be hard to do after the next electorate meeting. We have a motion and a second. I think we'll vote. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. 446 01:09:26.499 --> 01:09:31.299 Town of Plainfield: And there's no opposition, that's unanimous, so thank you, Michael, and still. Thank you, Michael. 447 01:09:34.669 --> 01:09:40.549 Town of Plainfield: One thing, does the board need to… does the board need to approve a member to sign the document? 448 01:09:40.909 --> 01:09:56.059 Town of Plainfield: Because there is a paper document in front of you to sign. I think it would be the select board chair. That actually signs this… I mean, I think you can just sign it. That's fine, if that… are you saying that that would be adequate to do that? It's written down, Select Board Chair, but I didn't know if you needed to be authorized to do it. 449 01:09:56.889 --> 01:10:06.849 Town of Plainfield: Do you have it, or is it in the folder here? He pulled it out earlier. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, before the meeting? Yep, yep. 450 01:10:10.459 --> 01:10:19.679 Town of Plainfield: And we can do that, and it would just be… Yeah. Thank you, everyone. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Do you have to sign this? 451 01:10:20.519 --> 01:10:37.299 Town of Plainfield: So I guess I'll make a motion to allow Select Board Chair Carl to sign the, what does it say? Sign the Certificate of adoption on behalf of the Select Board? Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. 452 01:10:37.539 --> 01:10:43.099 Town of Plainfield: I will do that. Carl, could you sign, too, so we could scan one, please? I will. Thank you. 453 01:10:48.919 --> 01:10:54.639 Town of Plainfield: Okay, next item is the, Town Treasurer's Report. 454 01:10:54.839 --> 01:10:55.609 Town of Plainfield: Shit. 455 01:11:13.449 --> 01:11:24.689 Town of Plainfield: So, a little bit earlier, I sent this, like, board a worksheet to kind of look at, you know, as we kind of, like, get to this… 456 01:11:24.689 --> 01:11:38.339 Town of Plainfield: getting up to the point where we are talking about having to have matching funds, and how we're going to make our share of things in some of these larger projects. In that sheet, 457 01:11:38.569 --> 01:11:44.879 Town of Plainfield: What it shows is that currently, like, our deck capacity 458 01:11:44.879 --> 01:12:01.619 Town of Plainfield: for, for the town is at 2.96% with our revenues that we got fiscal year 25. And the Government Finance Officers Association recommends that municipalities have a 459 01:12:01.619 --> 01:12:10.149 Town of Plainfield: debt, debt ratio that is below 10%. So we're pretty… we're pretty well set there. And… 460 01:12:10.629 --> 01:12:28.809 Town of Plainfield: based on numbers from August that I got from the Vermont Bond Bank, the… the change in our debt capacity, should we have to borrow a million dollars for a 30-year bond, would… would move our debt capacity from 461 01:12:29.939 --> 01:12:39.579 Town of Plainfield: From 2.96 up to about 5.3, depending on different scenarios when we talk about revenue. There's a couple of 462 01:12:40.239 --> 01:12:50.939 Town of Plainfield: like, potential revenue loss, revenue gain sources. One of the risks that we have with how we approach, the Brook Road projects 463 01:12:50.939 --> 01:13:00.709 Town of Plainfield: further upstream, should we not move those projects forward? What would… essentially what would happen is we would lose, 464 01:13:00.709 --> 01:13:12.029 Town of Plainfield: a fairly large amount of revenue that comes from the state based on highway mileage. And so, you know, we have to offset that risk there to the, 465 01:13:12.309 --> 01:13:35.659 Town of Plainfield: you know, if we want to take on more debt, like, to do a project which is going to have a cost for us, what is the cost of an action? So the cost of inaction in, not pursuing reconstruction of Brook Road would be at minimum for, in terms of, like, our revenue every year, about 20% of our federal highway match, depending on 466 01:13:35.659 --> 01:13:42.759 Town of Plainfield: how roads get reclassified. So, just wanted to bring that to the board. And, 467 01:13:42.799 --> 01:13:53.839 Town of Plainfield: You know, and… and to, you know, understand that, like, right now, where we are with the debt we're holding, like, it's pretty good. You know, and this is all also informed with 468 01:13:53.839 --> 01:14:02.829 Town of Plainfield: I had conversations with, folks at Vermont Legal Cities and Towns, with, their municipal finance group there, so… 469 01:14:03.059 --> 01:14:05.879 Town of Plainfield: Did a lot of that work. 470 01:14:06.699 --> 01:14:07.729 Town of Plainfield: Job. 471 01:14:09.619 --> 01:14:10.809 Town of Plainfield: Questions? 472 01:14:11.479 --> 01:14:15.859 Town of Plainfield: Oh, any posters? Thank you. Thank you, yeah. 473 01:14:17.119 --> 01:14:19.129 Town of Plainfield: I think those are good there. 474 01:14:24.279 --> 01:14:26.179 Town of Plainfield: Any other… 475 01:14:27.409 --> 01:14:37.919 Town of Plainfield: Is the, next thing to Road Commissioner's report? The next thing, oh, I'm sorry. You know him? Yeah. See if we can get him. Yeah, go ahead. 476 01:14:38.429 --> 01:14:50.069 Town of Plainfield: So, to bounce off that, like, that question of, like, can we, you know, like, you know, can we fund our share of these projects? Yes. 477 01:14:50.069 --> 01:14:59.319 Town of Plainfield: Like, it is… it's evident that we have the ability to take on debt right now, like, especially on the outside of this, 478 01:14:59.709 --> 01:15:07.799 Town of Plainfield: you know, the… once we get up to these development and construction phases of these projects. The, 479 01:15:08.229 --> 01:15:13.359 Town of Plainfield: A little bit of news today was kind of disheartening, in that… 480 01:15:13.949 --> 01:15:18.679 Town of Plainfield: the Federal Highway, folks are not in support of 481 01:15:19.669 --> 01:15:31.739 Town of Plainfield: or they're downplaying the viability of any kind of realignment outside of the current right-of-way. And so, it may help… that's going to create 482 01:15:31.819 --> 01:15:33.899 Town of Plainfield: Probably a higher cost. 483 01:15:33.929 --> 01:15:47.369 Town of Plainfield: And the, the design proposals that we got back from the, from Fuss and O'Neill, who's the design firm that we're currently, like, in negotiation with, came back. 484 01:15:47.369 --> 01:15:55.329 Town of Plainfield: they were high, much higher than what V Transit expected, and we got this news from Federal Highway, so… 485 01:15:55.329 --> 01:16:06.819 Town of Plainfield: we're gonna have a little more headwind trying to get this process, to move along quickly. And, but the… the study of the brook may help 486 01:16:07.079 --> 01:16:12.449 Town of Plainfield: inform that process in the design consult, but we had to kind of go back to the drawing. 487 01:16:12.809 --> 01:16:17.989 Town of Plainfield: So, yeah, not a great, outcome right now. 488 01:16:22.179 --> 01:16:39.259 Town of Plainfield: What are the next steps there? We go back and we renegotiate with, Fustin O'Neill in there, and that's something that we do with our project management firm, GPI, and, Pat Trevers, and… and, 489 01:16:39.259 --> 01:16:47.489 Town of Plainfield: And then, should, like, we get to a, you know, negotiated price for that design work, then we'll have a… 490 01:16:47.489 --> 01:16:49.369 Town of Plainfield: A public concerns meeting. 491 01:16:49.369 --> 01:16:53.009 Town of Plainfield: That's the next step. Okay. Thank you. Take care. 492 01:16:54.819 --> 01:17:10.019 Town of Plainfield: It's… if it's not snowing right now, it's gonna be snowing soon, it seems like. Are there any specific announcements around, now that we're hitting snow season for residents? I know there's some places people can't park, and some other things. Yeah, it's, 493 01:17:11.219 --> 01:17:18.589 Town of Plainfield: I think on the statute, it's November 1st, November 15th, and November to May 1st. 494 01:17:18.629 --> 01:17:36.389 Town of Plainfield: Is that right? That sounds familiar, but I'm not sure. Would you be able to report forum in other ways, maybe get the information out so folks are prepared for when we have to be filing and that kind of stuff? Yep, no problem. Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Can I just add something? Yes. Thank you. 495 01:17:37.139 --> 01:17:38.939 Town of Plainfield: Karen Hatcher, 496 01:17:39.059 --> 01:17:49.819 Town of Plainfield: I think what we talked about earlier, the Great Brooks study, the reason that we're bringing all the consultants together from FNO and also, SO 497 01:17:49.819 --> 01:18:08.879 Town of Plainfield: S-L-R? R-M. S-L-R. The reason to bring the river people, the water people, together with the road people is to begin this conversation together. And we expect that this is going to be a long process to get everybody agreeing what the best solutions are and what… 498 01:18:08.949 --> 01:18:15.489 Town of Plainfield: the number is, but starting… Josh is a hero in that he's been in the middle of this. 499 01:18:15.489 --> 01:18:32.499 Town of Plainfield: This whole time, and, this will be a hard process, and, but it will… there will be several times where the community will be engaged, because that's required in the municipal process. So stay… stay tuned. 500 01:18:32.709 --> 01:18:38.449 Town of Plainfield: We're not done, we're gonna fight for every dollar and do it right. Yay, right, every dollar. 501 01:18:47.279 --> 01:19:06.699 Town of Plainfield: Thank you, Josh. Thanks, Josh. I guess, that does it. Reports, we have a approval of draft minutes. Kyle, can I make a motion to approve the minutes from the October 27th, 2025 regular meeting and the November 3rd, 2025 informational meeting? 502 01:19:07.189 --> 01:19:13.509 Town of Plainfield: I second that. I second that. And all those in favor, say aye. Aye. 503 01:19:14.379 --> 01:19:30.169 Town of Plainfield: And do we have a warrant? Yes, can I make a motion to approve accounts payable for October 31st, 2025, and November 3rd, 2025, along with payroll for October 30th, 2025, and November 6th, 2025? 504 01:19:30.859 --> 01:19:37.529 Town of Plainfield: We're seconded. Motion and second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. 505 01:19:39.329 --> 01:19:55.629 Town of Plainfield: We have a, almost the last item is an executive session to talk about real estate, so, we'll come out and make any announcements that are applicable, and, then we'll adjourn. 506 01:19:56.489 --> 01:19:59.179 Town of Plainfield: So, that's it for the regular meeting. 507 01:19:59.489 --> 01:20:15.439 Town of Plainfield: Carl, can I make a motion to move into Executive Session to discuss real estate? Thank you. 508 01:20:15.449 --> 01:20:24.319 Town of Plainfield: I'm not sure I understand. What'd you say? The executive session law… Yeah. …requires a specific vote 509 01:20:24.489 --> 01:20:33.039 Town of Plainfield: And a showing that it would be, harmful if the matter were taken up in other than executive session. 510 01:20:33.979 --> 01:20:45.679 Town of Plainfield: So the fact that it's about real estate does not necessarily mean that it qualifies for the exemption. It's with our attorney. There's an attorney-client privilege that is 511 01:20:45.889 --> 01:20:48.939 Town of Plainfield: The reason for the executive session? We still have to make the same… 512 01:20:48.939 --> 01:21:13.879 Town of Plainfield: Yeah, so, can I make a motion that we go into… I actually asked you to consider to not have an executive session. Sasha, since you're not at the microphone, if you could be at the microphone, which is where everyone speaks from, you'd be great, but since I had just made a motion, which you know on the Select Board means that then there's a second, and then you could speak, but you didn't wait for that, I'd like to make a motion to go into 513 01:21:13.879 --> 01:21:22.649 Town of Plainfield: Executive Session per 1VSA 313, Section 1, Subsection… 514 01:21:22.789 --> 01:21:28.959 Town of Plainfield: So, I'm sorry, Section 2, the negotiation or securing of real estate purchases or lease options. 515 01:21:30.829 --> 01:21:32.179 Town of Plainfield: We have a motion. 516 01:21:32.839 --> 01:21:43.009 Town of Plainfield: Do you second that? Second. Okay, and all those in favor, say aye. You speak to that, because there is… there are statutory requirements 517 01:21:43.009 --> 01:22:07.429 Town of Plainfield: in order to go into an executive session, which is essentially keeping things secret from the public. And I would ask the board to consider, is it necessary to go into executive session? We all know that there has been a lot of negotiation about the possibility of buying some property, both on Main Street and on East Hill Road, and it may well be that that does not need to be an executive session for 518 01:22:07.429 --> 01:22:21.689 Town of Plainfield: there'd be a decision. And I would ask that the board not go into executive session, I would ask the board to make the showing that it's necessary to prevent public harm to go into executive session, because that has not yet happened. 519 01:22:23.009 --> 01:22:25.029 Town of Plainfield: That's part of the statute. 520 01:22:26.829 --> 01:22:51.739 Town of Plainfield: Yeah, I would… I made the motion that was seconded to go into executive session so that we could talk to our real estate attorney about, purchase and sale agreements for the properties, that we've been discussing as a board, and specifically talk about our options and our ability to negotiate those purchase and sale agreements, given the current situation, and want to strategize with the 521 01:22:51.739 --> 01:23:08.179 Town of Plainfield: employer, the best ways for us to interact with these legal documents. I find it would be prejudicial if we had all of those conversations in public, including with, potentially, who knows who's listening, folks who are on the other side of those negotiations being a part of those negotiations. 522 01:23:09.259 --> 01:23:12.119 Town of Plainfield: Thank you, Dana. Yeah. 523 01:23:12.889 --> 01:23:16.209 Town of Plainfield: Perfectly amended. 524 01:23:19.839 --> 01:23:44.389 Town of Plainfield: Eli? Hi, my name is Eli Worla. Could you just say that again? I didn't understand. So, we have… we have purchase and sale agreements for these two properties. Given the recent events, including the election, we have to discuss with our attorney what these events do to those purchase and sale agreements, and strategize ways that we can continue to negotiate around those properties, and what makes the most sense. It would be prejudicial to do that in public. 525 01:23:44.389 --> 01:23:48.249 Town of Plainfield: Because that would then allow the folks we may be negotiating with 526 01:23:48.249 --> 01:24:04.839 Town of Plainfield: undue information that may not help the town, it may, in a way, cost the town more money, we don't know until we talk to the attorney, and it's usually, attorney-client conversations are, confidential. This is a confidential attorney-client conversation, it doesn't have 527 01:24:06.139 --> 01:24:07.779 Town of Plainfield: Thank you. 528 01:24:08.709 --> 01:24:23.439 Town of Plainfield: Is there a trainee here? Okay. Is there a tourney here? Our attorney is not yet here. Okay. Because we're running early. Because we are running early. Alright, so we are… No, we are out, so I think we can… 529 01:24:23.669 --> 01:24:38.610 Town of Plainfield: I'm gonna pause the… I'm gonna pause the recording. Evac, next steps are gonna be discussed after our meeting with the attorney, Janice. Thank you. Yep. 530 01:24:38.760 --> 01:24:47.940 Town of Plainfield: All right, I'd like to make a motion to return out of executive session. Second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. 531 01:24:48.230 --> 01:24:50.709 Town of Plainfield: We have a statement for the… 532 01:24:50.900 --> 01:25:09.289 Town of Plainfield: about the executive session, and then we're going to talk about EVAC a little bit. Yeah, no public decisions were made in executive session. I think that's EVE next steps. We are… we're looking at the next steps, given the vote last week, and the options based on the real estate contracts we have entered into. 533 01:25:09.290 --> 01:25:17.689 Town of Plainfield: The town knows that obligating money for the purchase is not supported by the town, per the vote. The attorney is looking at the legal options, given the bond vote. 534 01:25:17.690 --> 01:25:30.439 Town of Plainfield: After we hear back from our attorney, we will discuss next steps publicly. We're also looking, as a board, to get a final status report from the EVEAC to help us, move forward with next steps. 535 01:25:31.090 --> 01:25:46.839 Town of Plainfield: Step up to the mic. My name's Elaine in Norway, and so, how come there were a couple other people that were in executive session, and how come we weren't… 536 01:25:46.870 --> 01:25:56.209 Town of Plainfield: It wasn't announced what those particular people… I mean, we knew we were waiting for a lawyer, but I don't understand why Aaron and Karen were part of the meeting. 537 01:25:57.290 --> 01:26:15.289 Town of Plainfield: Basically, they were… they were talking about potential options with the attorney. The attorney had asked for some… some specific information, and that we did… that was… they were the experts to give some of that, knowledge and information, and executive sessions are… 538 01:26:15.290 --> 01:26:20.639 Town of Plainfield: the purview, or we're allowed to invite folks in to give, you know, information. 539 01:26:20.640 --> 01:26:32.980 Town of Plainfield: So it doesn't actually have anything to do with them, possibly coming up with another idea for financing for the land? We can't discuss what was discussed in executive session. 540 01:26:36.900 --> 01:27:01.880 Town of Plainfield: Actually, why does it say you can't discuss it? What it says is, any decisions that you make must be made in a public session. So, if you made a decision to explore other kinds of bond funding or other funding, that has to be a decision that's made in executive session, that's made in an open session. 541 01:27:01.880 --> 01:27:04.689 Town of Plainfield: We don't have, we don't have the information. 542 01:27:04.720 --> 01:27:23.090 Town of Plainfield: So you made no decision whatsoever about exploring other options? We have asked the attorney to look into other options and to have conversations about other options. But you have not made a motion to authorize the attorney to look into other options in an open session. Any decisions 543 01:27:23.100 --> 01:27:38.700 Town of Plainfield: are required to be made in an open session. There have been no… at this point, I've heard of no decisions… motions being made for a decision to authorize an attorney to do anything at all. So… 544 01:27:38.700 --> 01:27:55.529 Town of Plainfield: If you made some decision in executive session, then you have not done an open session, that's a violation of the open meeting law. Well, not according to the law that I'm looking at, which says no formal or binding action shall be taken in an executive session, except for actions related to securing of real estate options. 545 01:27:55.730 --> 01:28:20.690 Town of Plainfield: Okay, so… And also, I would just note, because you brought this up earlier, the, finding of premature general public knowledge is a section of the open… So we all… Executive… I just want to… for certain things, labor relations, arbitration, etc, but the negotiating and securing of real estate is actually not under that section of executive… or of executive session law. So you weren't… you weren't correct in that we had to make the case. Has there been any decision by the 546 01:28:20.690 --> 01:28:41.349 Town of Plainfield: board, an executive session they would like to make, a public session, to comply with a Vermont Ethics Commission decision of March 5th, which specifically ruled that a penny paid more than $374,000 is an ethics violation. Has there been any decision made to comply with that 547 01:28:41.350 --> 01:28:42.879 Town of Plainfield: ethics decision. 548 01:28:42.980 --> 01:28:44.040 Town of Plainfield: I don't know. 549 01:28:44.040 --> 01:29:08.650 Town of Plainfield: I'm not familiar with what you're talking about. There is a March 5th decision which is posted on the website for the Vermont Methodist Commission, and it's posted on the website for the, EVAC committee. There is also another posting of a March… sorry, an August 19th, 2025 email from the Executive Director to Peter Young there. 550 01:29:08.980 --> 01:29:18.600 Town of Plainfield: Which suggests that there is no problem anymore because there was a fair market range, which doesn't exist. That… 551 01:29:19.230 --> 01:29:31.289 Town of Plainfield: February 11, 2025, appraisal, purchased by Mr. Tib… I don't know how to say Albion's last name. Taboo. Thank you. In four paid… 4 places. 552 01:29:31.490 --> 01:29:42.900 Town of Plainfield: Page 1, page 2, page 3, and page 5 stated the market value is $374,000. On page 5, I think it was, it stated, if you pay more than that, you got a profitable. Did you? 553 01:29:42.900 --> 01:29:56.400 Town of Plainfield: And so, there has been no further meeting of the Ethics Commission by… No, I've looked at the minutes, and I've looked at the… I have looked at the actual agendas. 554 01:29:56.440 --> 01:30:21.379 Town of Plainfield: A further taking up of this is not… has not occurred. You did get an email back from the executive director, who is not empowered to make decisions for the Commission. Well… And she referenced that there was a range of fair market value, which is untrue. It's on the first page of the, assessment. No, that's… that is… that is the comparables. Every… every… every… maybe you guys are not familiar with the 555 01:30:21.380 --> 01:30:45.960 Town of Plainfield: Every appraisal that happens, the person doing the appraisal has to find comparables. Now, these comparables were a little kind of wingy because some of them were up, like, in Duxbury, but we won't even talk about that. And what happens is, making an appraisal, is you come up with a fair market value, and that is what's stated four times in that document. There is no statement that there is a range of fair market value, and… 556 01:30:46.120 --> 01:30:49.539 Town of Plainfield: The Executive Director cannot make decisions. 557 01:30:49.540 --> 01:31:11.600 Town of Plainfield: for the Commission. So my question is, has there been a decision on the part of the select board to comply with the Ethics Commission advisory opinion, which precludes any payment in excess of $374,000? We're going by the letter that came from us. We can't do that! That's not a decision. We didn't know that. 558 01:31:11.600 --> 01:31:34.930 Town of Plainfield: Well, of course you know that. You… all you have to do is look at… you had a formal decision dated March 5th, and sit there and list the name of the people on the commission. All you had to do was look at the minutes, all you had to do was to say, wait a minute, of course an executive director cannot ever make a decision for a commission, just as though some executive director for the select board cannot make a decision for the select board. This is… this is not… 559 01:31:35.080 --> 01:31:41.459 Town of Plainfield: rocket science. And so it sounds as though there has been no decision 560 01:31:41.570 --> 01:32:03.600 Town of Plainfield: on the part of the Select Board, and no direction to its attorney, that it must comply with the Vermont Ethics decision of March 5th, 2025. We'll have to look that up. I mean, I don't know. Dan? Well, so, my… so, this is from our perspective, and I… again, I'm trying to find the documents as we're talking about it, I'm happy to find it. 561 01:32:04.110 --> 01:32:20.519 Town of Plainfield: We sent a second report, so there was the first report, yes, I know what we sent. I can look in my email and found it right here. Great, because I just gave you… Yes, we sent a second report that included the assessment. 562 01:32:20.520 --> 01:32:29.170 Town of Plainfield: That included the range that… and where we saw it in the report, and the 374, it included the purchase price. 563 01:32:29.180 --> 01:32:51.819 Town of Plainfield: It included that Bram is the clerk, it included all the facts that you just laid out, and we got a decision back from the Ethics Commission that said that we were within the rights. Then, on, I believe August 25th, it might have been early September, we voted to sign the P&Ss on these properties. That is how… 564 01:32:51.820 --> 01:33:16.770 Town of Plainfield: this went. We did not vote for 495 until we had gotten an ethics decision that said that we could do so, and I'm happy to find it for you. It's a document that exists. Has that report been posted on the website? I don't know. I don't know every page of the website. Great. So, shall I give you my email? You can be happy to send that to me. I'm just giving you a public records request. My email is afair at 565 01:33:16.770 --> 01:33:41.669 Town of Plainfield: at GMAVT.net. That is faster than I can type, but if you write it down for me, I will definitely get it to you. Okay, I'll be happy to write it on the bottom there. But however, the other problem is, you need to go back and read the August 19, 2025 email. It was not a decision, it was not from the Ethics Commission, it was from the Executive Director. And I can tell you. 566 01:33:41.670 --> 01:33:48.479 Town of Plainfield: I went through all of the minutes, I went through all of the agendas for March 5th onward. 567 01:33:48.780 --> 01:34:03.949 Town of Plainfield: And the Ethics Commission has not taken this up again. Well, you know, rather than get into a whole new discussion about the project, we're not planning to have the town buy that property at any price. 568 01:34:04.580 --> 01:34:28.759 Town of Plainfield: Well, by the time you made that decision, why don't you make that in public? Then we are rescinding any purchase and sale agreement, and we are not pursuing it. We have to talk to our attorney about options, which is what we were just doing, not any… But you have just said you're not buying the property. Well, no, I'm saying… I said, as I said, literally what I read, just before this, the town knows that obligating money for the 569 01:34:28.760 --> 01:34:32.629 Town of Plainfield: Purchase is not supported by the town vote, so we are looking at other options. 570 01:34:32.630 --> 01:34:44.849 Town of Plainfield: We are asking our attorney to look at how, given the contracts we have signed, we can move forward. That's literally what we're doing. That's really all we're doing, and that's why we had him here. Well, it sounds as though you also… 571 01:34:44.850 --> 01:35:01.460 Town of Plainfield: blessedly decided that you were not moving forward with the purchase of this property, and I would suggest if that's the case… We haven't… That's not what… that's not what Dan said. We are trying to get more information to make the best possible decision. Dan said… 572 01:35:01.470 --> 01:35:05.380 Town of Plainfield: That it was clear that the town does not want the town. 573 01:35:05.630 --> 01:35:07.189 Town of Plainfield: To buy the property. 574 01:35:07.470 --> 01:35:19.269 Town of Plainfield: And so now we're looking at what other options. Huge amount of thought and work has gone into this. We want to see what we can learn from it. We're getting a final, or not final, but a developmental report from the 575 01:35:19.270 --> 01:35:31.569 Town of Plainfield: EVAC group, because they've done a huge amount of work on this. What are the options? What are the other opportunities? We have a new committee, a new group now forming, so that we can look at other opportunities. 576 01:35:31.620 --> 01:35:33.950 Town of Plainfield: You know, we still have the same goal. 577 01:35:34.020 --> 01:35:45.770 Town of Plainfield: We would… we need some housing and tax base here, or we're gonna… we're just gonna turn into a retirement community with 600 people. You know, you might consider that if you had actually complied with the appraisal. 578 01:35:45.770 --> 01:36:10.650 Town of Plainfield: that there might not have been as much opposition. If you had actually complied with a document that said paying more than a dime over $374,000, is a violation, it may not be that people are so opposed to this particular property… Well, it sounds like… They may be opposed to not… to paying an excessive price that exceeds fair market value. What the Ethics Commission decision actually said was, this is our decision, it's our final 579 01:36:10.650 --> 01:36:35.409 Town of Plainfield: decision unless more information comes up. And the only additional information relating to appraisal was the town-wide reappraisal, which is required, as it states on the first page of the appraisal, to be fair market value, which valued the property at $216,800. Those are the two figures. And so, I don't know, because I don't talk to a lot of people in town. 580 01:36:35.410 --> 01:36:37.190 Town of Plainfield: Well, the lawyer knows this, too. 581 01:36:37.190 --> 01:37:02.099 Town of Plainfield: Well, does he understand? I… he's… he's… Does he understand? Apparently, you guys have not understood that there has been no change in the ethics, advisory opinion, so I'm wondering if… We literally have communication from the Ethics Commission that says that we need… yes, we do! I mean, you don't email how to do, but that doesn't mean your rights. It's an email from the director. It is not… That says that we… yes, the email itself says we… 582 01:37:02.100 --> 01:37:08.079 Town of Plainfield: We, as in the Executive Ethics Commission, reviewed. It doesn't say I reviewed. It didn't happen. 583 01:37:08.080 --> 01:37:16.409 Town of Plainfield: Look at the minutes. It did not happen. It did not occur. Well… Go do your homework. It did not occur. 584 01:37:16.940 --> 01:37:39.019 Town of Plainfield: We will look into it. Let me move on to someone else. Yeah, someone else has a question? Well, since you've done a FOIA, we'll wait and do the FOIA. I'll wait for you to go through the FOIA process. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Would you state your name, please? Okay. 585 01:37:39.020 --> 01:37:45.419 Town of Plainfield: I know that this was not considered a referendum. Excuse me. This is true, yeah. 586 01:37:45.430 --> 01:37:54.959 Town of Plainfield: Did you want to say that? 587 01:37:56.080 --> 01:38:07.360 Town of Plainfield: I know that this was not considered a referendum, this vote. At what point in the process would we want to know definitively, are folks for or against this? 588 01:38:07.720 --> 01:38:09.390 Town of Plainfield: EVF project. 589 01:38:12.030 --> 01:38:16.590 Town of Plainfield: I think we still have to get more information. I, I… you know, we… 590 01:38:16.590 --> 01:38:38.760 Town of Plainfield: we thought a week ago that we would have an answer, we did have an answer, and it wasn't what we had hoped as a board. We had hoped that the town would support it. Town isn't supporting it. So now we've got to reassess. We can't do that in a few days. We have to get our… I know, I'm saying, is there a point in the process? So, like, would it be before… 591 01:38:39.240 --> 01:38:46.480 Town of Plainfield: A purchase and sales was actually executed by either the town, a nonprofit, whoever. 592 01:38:46.940 --> 01:38:59.089 Town of Plainfield: The purpose of the sales have not been executed. That's what I'm saying. Would we want the town to officially vote yay or nay, we're moving forward with this? 593 01:39:00.530 --> 01:39:12.389 Town of Plainfield: I think we heard the town, as the select board, we heard… we heard that the vote… the town gave a vote, that they did not support us buying the land. 594 01:39:12.760 --> 01:39:32.520 Town of Plainfield: That's pretty… that's pretty cool. And by extension, it also didn't support the town managing the project. So if the nonprofit is formed… What's the nonprofit? I'm saying if a new nonprofit is formed… Oh, yeah. …to potentially fundraise for this purchase… 595 01:39:33.120 --> 01:39:49.840 Town of Plainfield: would that take this project out of the public sphere? So would EVAC no longer be working towards this end goal? Would it now be the board of the new nonprofit that decides what happens and how? 596 01:39:50.750 --> 01:40:03.079 Town of Plainfield: that's a… that's not for us to say. Like, one of the… it is taking the vote, ostensibly. It takes it off of our table. 597 01:40:04.200 --> 01:40:21.270 Town of Plainfield: I think… I'll be very clear, I'm worried that a new nonprofit will be formed, and that the folks who purchase the land through the nonprofit will not take town feedback, because there's no requirement any longer. 598 01:40:21.270 --> 01:40:37.380 Town of Plainfield: That was always the reason why we wanted the town to control the project. And I'm worried that that's what's happening, but not being communicated. Well, that's not happening by us, but… Not you. But I think there was an acknowledged risk 599 01:40:37.600 --> 01:40:43.749 Town of Plainfield: That, by taking it out of town control, that is taking it out of town control. 600 01:40:46.740 --> 01:40:54.210 Town of Plainfield: Documents were filed to form a new nonprofit by… some EVAC members. 601 01:40:54.550 --> 01:41:04.669 Town of Plainfield: without communicating with the rest of us. And to me, that feels really icky. And I don't like it, and I'm worried that that will take… 602 01:41:05.320 --> 01:41:13.699 Town of Plainfield: If somehow funds are raised to purchase the land, that we will go down the path, that we've been having folks 603 01:41:13.700 --> 01:41:30.059 Town of Plainfield: advocate very staunchly against, that we will basically just have a developer that does what they want, they don't have to answer to the town, so I'm just feeling worried, and I'm expressing that to you, because I'd like for you all to protect us from that, because I don't necessarily 604 01:41:30.120 --> 01:41:38.999 Town of Plainfield: Feel good about the way that the folks who filed for this new nonprofit have been communicating with our community members and myself. 605 01:41:39.260 --> 01:41:45.000 Town of Plainfield: So I would just like to feel that you all are protecting the rest of us. 606 01:41:45.190 --> 01:41:51.829 Town of Plainfield: We're doing what we can, but once it leaves the control of the town, of us. 607 01:41:51.870 --> 01:42:05.709 Town of Plainfield: then it's down to the Planning Commission and Development Review Board and, like, state-sanctioned processes of how development happens. Like, we don't… we don't have… like, state law has ultimate control. 608 01:42:05.800 --> 01:42:15.000 Town of Plainfield: of private building processes, not the select board. And so, if the town isn't purchasing the property. 609 01:42:15.120 --> 01:42:25.810 Town of Plainfield: then we lose… we lose sight control, and then we lose some of the control. There's still laws, there's still permits, there's still rules, but we have less control 610 01:42:26.450 --> 01:42:29.299 Town of Plainfield: And that mostly is because of last week's welcome. 611 01:42:31.080 --> 01:42:48.659 Town of Plainfield: Okay, I think I just wanted to express that I'm feeling really uncomfortable and worried. Well, I… we hear you, and we're worried about it, too. Okay. Thank you. That we don't have any say anymore. That that could happen. Thank you. You know, yeah. 612 01:42:49.080 --> 01:42:58.220 Town of Plainfield: Yeah, go ahead, Tammy. So, Terry Gorman, I guess to lead into that, I guess I'm just gonna ask the question, our Select Board isn't in the position of 613 01:42:58.730 --> 01:43:03.470 Town of Plainfield: helping or proceeding with what our community has voted down. 614 01:43:03.630 --> 01:43:26.359 Town of Plainfield: And that means you're not engaging, so this conversation that we just witnessed, you know, Aaron and Karen sitting here using our attorney isn't identifying or trying to assist with going around what our community is asking for. And your community… the community's asking for us to not to borrow money. Not to borrow money. I can read off. 615 01:43:26.360 --> 01:43:38.849 Town of Plainfield: I'm door-to-door, and I didn't… I mean, I was interested. What I have to say is important, because I did take time, so as much as you guys continue to say, you know, a lot of people have taken the time. 616 01:43:39.180 --> 01:44:03.359 Town of Plainfield: I have 7 select board meetings since September. I have set up the committee meetings. I have given my feedback. I have tried to go onto the HUD website and learn of regulations and rules, because I've had concerns. And I even took my time to go door-to-door to try to find… to make sure people knew the vote was happening. Obviously, you know, there was mailings done. 617 01:44:03.360 --> 01:44:20.729 Town of Plainfield: And so on, but I was volunteering my time to make sure people had their answers. And the things that… it wasn't about the lungs. I had never heard once that it was about us taking on a loan. Please, I'm talking again. 618 01:44:20.730 --> 01:44:32.439 Town of Plainfield: I didn't hear that once about the debt, necessarily. The debt can be done in multiple ways. Obviously, the debt towards the town is taking on responsibility is debt. 619 01:44:32.500 --> 01:44:51.000 Town of Plainfield: So you can mislead that and make it seem like it's just a loan, but that is anything that you have as an obligation. So, that being said, you know, basically, what I heard was, you know, they didn't want the town to be a developer. There's risk associated, he didn't have the experience to do that. 620 01:44:51.040 --> 01:44:55.749 Town of Plainfield: They… I hope my life spelled on, I'm sorry. 621 01:44:55.970 --> 01:45:05.559 Town of Plainfield: You know, the construction piece of just selling land and not having a full plan of how we were gonna get the homes constructed. 622 01:45:05.850 --> 01:45:09.610 Town of Plainfield: The town going to get sued, that was one. 623 01:45:09.750 --> 01:45:23.580 Town of Plainfield: The homes, there was too many homes on one small piece of land, the wetlands, and how it's gonna affect our current village. The town going over budget, and the town being on the hook. 624 01:45:23.620 --> 01:45:32.069 Town of Plainfield: The tenth approach of being, I just said that one, lack of staff and experience to be a developer. We… 625 01:45:32.070 --> 01:45:46.850 Town of Plainfield: focusing on the… we needed to, as a town, to focus on the fixing our community, and not necessarily doing the expansion project. So, I think the, you know, the… us focusing on just 626 01:45:46.850 --> 01:46:04.919 Town of Plainfield: properties in general is a great idea, but I don't think that the Select Board is in the position of ignoring and overstepping our community to try to help somebody else make that happen, if that's what the intent was. And I feel like when I, you know, when… 627 01:46:04.940 --> 01:46:08.120 Town of Plainfield: We watched Aaron walk down and walk back up. 628 01:46:08.270 --> 01:46:17.309 Town of Plainfield: And we thought, oh, well, they're still waiting to have the attorney. Which, we never saw the attorney come, I don't know if Ryan called or when it was perfect. 629 01:46:17.310 --> 01:46:35.079 Town of Plainfield: But nevertheless, you know, that didn't feel well, and so I think that's why people were asking the question, so I ask you, you know, are you trying to step around what the community asked for, or are you trying to do something to really understand what the community's been saying and is saying? 630 01:46:35.080 --> 01:46:43.789 Town of Plainfield: Or are we gonna just kind of just try to skirt around things, and that's what people are uncomfortable with, and I feel it's creating division, and do we really need to do that? 631 01:46:43.900 --> 01:46:47.610 Town of Plainfield: We have enough… Are we all going in as a team? Let's be a team! 632 01:46:49.850 --> 01:47:00.549 Town of Plainfield: We have enough on our plate. We don't need to be getting into new projects. We are trying to get… we heard the community want to vote. 633 01:47:00.910 --> 01:47:03.579 Town of Plainfield: We don't want to borrow money, we're not going to borrow money. 634 01:47:03.930 --> 01:47:17.680 Town of Plainfield: So you didn't answer the question. Are you trying to score a discovery? We are not, we're not doing anything. Okay, so… We haven't, we just, we just formed a new committee who, will be looking at options, and we will be wanting to… 635 01:47:17.680 --> 01:47:26.660 Town of Plainfield: see what they come up with for other ideas. And if we have to borrow money for that, we'll have to address that. So where's the vote in public on the new committee? 636 01:47:26.660 --> 01:47:49.090 Town of Plainfield: What? Where's the public vote on the new committee, and who's on it? You missed that, we discussed it. We had a public vote this evening. We are going to let people know how they can apply. We're going to try to put… We're going to go through the same process as we did. Please forgive us. No, that's okay. We're volunteers here, and you know the game. 637 01:47:49.090 --> 01:47:57.379 Town of Plainfield: comfortable, because I understand what an executive meeting does mean, and I feel like this is… what happened tonight feels like something's going… 638 01:47:57.990 --> 01:48:13.950 Town of Plainfield: being done behind the townspeople's back, and I don't like that feeling. So I'm asking you to be honest and sincere, and tell me that you have no engagement or understanding that there's something going on around the voters. 639 01:48:14.110 --> 01:48:29.259 Town of Plainfield: We talked in executive session about the vote, about what… how we deal with the contracts that we have, and that's what we're talking about. Okay, so you're saying no, and I should feel concerned. May I, please? Sure, yeah. 640 01:48:29.990 --> 01:48:37.360 Town of Plainfield: The talk of blanket referendum on the project writ large was not in the vote. 641 01:48:37.530 --> 01:48:44.049 Town of Plainfield: That was placed on the vote by those against the vote, predominantly. 642 01:48:44.620 --> 01:48:58.799 Town of Plainfield: Okay, there's a lot of nuance. I want to acknowledge that there are a lot of, aspects that made people uncomfortable about it, and many of those aspects, if not all of those aspects, contributed to the loss. 643 01:48:58.960 --> 01:49:00.470 Town of Plainfield: Of the bond vote. 644 01:49:00.820 --> 01:49:06.049 Town of Plainfield: What is clearest to us from the language of the bomb vote. 645 01:49:06.230 --> 01:49:17.339 Town of Plainfield: is that the community is not comfortable with the Select Board taking… going into debt for this project. Or managing it. Or managing it. 646 01:49:17.510 --> 01:49:25.079 Town of Plainfield: That was pretty clear. That is very clear. And that's, like, a lot of mitigated risk that is no longer on our table. 647 01:49:25.250 --> 01:49:43.819 Town of Plainfield: That is what we know right now. Okay, so I appreciate you communicating that today, but again, I've been to Slack board meetings. Just being clear on what the conversations are, I do feel like a lot is happening behind the scenes, and it's really unclear as a community member to follow 648 01:49:43.820 --> 01:49:50.290 Town of Plainfield: what your thought, that process, because that's not what we've been hearing, that's not what we've seen. 649 01:49:50.290 --> 01:50:06.690 Town of Plainfield: You know, so I guess I came to Monday's meeting, and that's not what I was hearing. So I appreciate you guys, you know, saying that and making it clear, and it also makes me feel better that you're not trying to turn around voters. 650 01:50:06.690 --> 01:50:24.830 Town of Plainfield: Because I think that that would be detrimental to our town. I think a lot of people are concerned, and I think if we just stop and listen, and I'm hoping this new, you know, committee will allow people to stop and just listen, instead of just having responses. 651 01:50:24.830 --> 01:50:37.970 Town of Plainfield: Sometimes you have to listen to people's concerns before you can resolve them. And at every committee… I used to… when I was working at BSACU, I'd actually be put on committees to figure out the… 652 01:50:37.970 --> 01:50:48.270 Town of Plainfield: The whole scheme of things, the pros, the cons, you know, and try to resolve them, because you can't, as a community, we can't resolve things unless we listen to concerns. 653 01:50:48.270 --> 01:51:05.289 Town of Plainfield: And it's… that's my concern for you guys, is that I haven't felt that I got heard. And so I'm glad to hear that it sounds like you have been hearing, I… and potentially you're not doing… trying to skirt around what the community wants. 654 01:51:06.280 --> 01:51:13.100 Town of Plainfield: That's all I have to say. Thank you! Well, and I'll just say, any vagueness about 655 01:51:13.350 --> 01:51:28.629 Town of Plainfield: the property sale, and what's gonna happen in the next week, next month, we have just been in executive session, and our attorney has said, like, the vaguer you are, the better, until we actually work out what's going on. And that's attorney… 656 01:51:28.630 --> 01:51:40.530 Town of Plainfield: advice we're getting because of the situation we're in with the real estate contracts, etc. But you're not in the position to have our attorney working for another group. They're not working for another group. 657 01:51:40.530 --> 01:51:54.479 Town of Plainfield: He's working for us. And also, just so you know, he's not taking a single dollar from us, he's actually been working for us pro bono this whole time, so there's no actual talent finances going towards his salary, either, but he is working… 658 01:51:54.480 --> 01:52:05.099 Town of Plainfield: for us. We asked him to be at the meeting, we asked him questions, we, like, yeah. And we had to give him… And you already knew about the group that had formed this, 659 01:52:05.450 --> 01:52:09.310 Town of Plainfield: to… to… The non-profit group. 660 01:52:09.350 --> 01:52:33.169 Town of Plainfield: to come up with new fundraising. You already knew about that group? No. What are you talking about? Why were those two people sitting here? What town information were they providing to you? Well, Karen has been… that grant she wrote… Yeah, so are you looking to withdraw the grant? Well, we're worried about the grant. We'd like to get it, honestly. 661 01:52:33.170 --> 01:52:50.770 Town of Plainfield: Well, we were… we were… We were getting information so that we could… we have not made a decision. We made the decision and voted, publicly, to put in the application. We have made no decision. 662 01:52:50.980 --> 01:53:03.079 Town of Plainfield: beyond that, about the grant. And the grant is not just for the project up here, the grant is also for river repair, it's other things. So, I will point out, I did not speak on, 663 01:53:03.080 --> 01:53:20.079 Town of Plainfield: Monday's meeting. Would you speak into the microphone? Sure, thank you, sorry. So I did want to point out, Karen did say to the committee, I was at the meeting, Peter was here, that if we presented those grants as one. 664 01:53:20.080 --> 01:53:22.110 Town of Plainfield: It would not affect us. 665 01:53:22.210 --> 01:53:26.810 Town of Plainfield: The state will be able to identify… like, it's not all or nothing. 666 01:53:26.810 --> 01:53:51.770 Town of Plainfield: We can… so we have two projects under one grant, and you're… It's not all or nothing. Right, and it's specific… because you guys asked that question, and you were very clear… they were very clear with us that modern modes can be funded without the… Well, we're hoping that… we're hoping that's the case. I just want you guys to know that, though. Because that was not clear on the Monday meeting, but we were… they were very clear at the meeting 667 01:53:51.770 --> 01:53:55.589 Town of Plainfield: when they decided how to proceed with that. Yep, okay. 668 01:53:56.010 --> 01:53:59.150 Town of Plainfield: You wanna go, Janiece? Yeah, Janiece? 669 01:53:59.150 --> 01:54:00.850 Genese Grill: Thank you. Can you hear me? 670 01:54:01.220 --> 01:54:06.370 Genese Grill: Yeah. Okay, so I'm a little confused, I guess as we all are. 671 01:54:06.760 --> 01:54:10.179 Genese Grill: If the town is not buying the land. 672 01:54:10.360 --> 01:54:14.919 Genese Grill: Why have a meeting with the lawyer about buying the land? 673 01:54:14.920 --> 01:54:21.480 Town of Plainfield: We didn't have a meeting about buying the land. We had a meeting about the real estate contracts that we have already entered into. 674 01:54:21.480 --> 01:54:30.000 Genese Grill: But why… why… if you're not buying the land, why are those contracts relevant, except insofar as somebody else… 675 01:54:30.540 --> 01:54:40.240 Genese Grill: perhaps this non-profit might be buying the land. It just seems like it's a little bit of a slight, special pleading to say the meeting's not about buying the land, it's about. 676 01:54:40.240 --> 01:54:46.600 Town of Plainfield: making the project go forward or something, but I just, I just don't understand, and obviously… 677 01:54:46.600 --> 01:54:47.010 Genese Grill: world. 678 01:54:48.380 --> 01:55:04.880 Genese Grill: extremely suspicious, but, and I'm sorry about that, but there's a reason for that. There's a reason for why we're so suspicious, and I think you… I hope you understand that, but I just don't understand why, you know, Karen, Lauren. 679 01:55:04.880 --> 01:55:06.610 Genese Grill: Donnie Osmond. 680 01:55:06.610 --> 01:55:19.360 Genese Grill: And, Ariane and Kim are creating this new nonprofit. It seems pretty, clear that they want to raise money to buy the land. Was the town lawyer 681 01:55:19.360 --> 01:55:27.950 Genese Grill: advising you and them how to do this. And if that is so, I also agree that that's inappropriate. Thank you. 682 01:55:29.290 --> 01:55:32.479 Town of Plainfield: Yep. Did you have a question? Or a comment? 683 01:55:32.480 --> 01:55:52.050 Town of Plainfield: First of all, I agree with you that, you know, the town doesn't want us to take on the cost. I think you're right on there. I think in regards to the project management of it, I think you're right on there as far as the town not wanting you to do it. I'm more interested in site control in the HUD document, and… 684 01:55:52.050 --> 01:56:04.250 Town of Plainfield: It appears that that's related, so you have to have site control, I believe, to move forward with that ramp. I'd like that confirmed, and is that anything… 685 01:56:04.290 --> 01:56:12.900 Town of Plainfield: that you'll be looking at to obtain site control from a different manner to move forward with a HUD grant. That's what I would like to know. 686 01:56:13.110 --> 01:56:23.680 Town of Plainfield: We do know that we need site control, or at least it was going to be favored in the grant. And the, 687 01:56:23.980 --> 01:56:36.839 Town of Plainfield: But I think they also felt, Karen also felt, that the grant, that they could see that there was a purchase of sale sign that we signed that would be close to having site control. So… 688 01:56:36.950 --> 01:56:41.040 Town of Plainfield: That's where we're at. We want to play this out as long as we can. 689 01:56:41.040 --> 01:57:05.370 Town of Plainfield: You know, it's like, we don't want to start slamming doors, but play out the, what's already been done. Which brings me, I think, to my final, hopefully final question for you. Because of the EVAC meeting that's potentially going to happen on Thursday, can you just, just for my own purposes, just give me just a little bit more guidance of what you're kind of expecting out of that group for Thursday to happen? 690 01:57:05.600 --> 01:57:29.129 Town of Plainfield: Yeah, I mean, I think we were asking for… and Aaron did, like, kind of a verbal, very fast version, but we're hoping to just have the group, I mean, obviously debrief what happened with the vote, but also take what they've… work they've done and put it up against the charge that we gave them as a committee, and show us the places that they've met the charge, where there might be gaps, based on the vote. 691 01:57:29.130 --> 01:57:35.580 Town of Plainfield: Do they have the ability to move forward on any things or not? And… and hopefully all the working groups can… 692 01:57:35.580 --> 01:57:54.449 Town of Plainfield: report in on their work. We want to make sure that all the work that was done is archived and in a place that is available, because there's, you know, probably a lot of lessons learned and information in that work. And we want to get that as a report, maybe a final report, but definitely a report from the EPAC. 693 01:57:54.470 --> 01:58:03.200 Town of Plainfield: Yeah, and I guess my last comment is I'm really optimistic about the new committee you're going to be spinning up, and really, you know, think it can make a big difference for the community, so… 694 01:58:03.230 --> 01:58:07.470 Town of Plainfield: I'll leave it at that. Yep. Jared? 695 01:58:08.530 --> 01:58:19.219 Town of Plainfield: Alright, Jared Birchmore? I just have two things. I think, I want to address directly what you had said, Tammy, of the, 696 01:58:19.220 --> 01:58:26.000 Town of Plainfield: what Karen had said, Karen Hatcher, about whether the grant could be, you know. 697 01:58:26.000 --> 01:58:46.439 Town of Plainfield: parceled out and certain projects be funded or not. I think Karen said pretty clearly, yes, that can happen, and we don't have any say on how that happens. It is the grant committee and whoever is reviewing and approving those grants that gets to decide, yes, this project, no, this project. 698 01:58:46.650 --> 01:59:06.060 Town of Plainfield: And I think that Karen said that pretty clearly. It's their… in their court, in their decision on what they choose to fund or not. That's out of our hands, now that the grant application is with them. The second thing that I want to say, and it's in response to Kirstie's comments. 699 01:59:06.060 --> 01:59:17.020 Town of Plainfield: is that I think it's… it's valid to have concerns if there's another group forming to try to buy this land, but the… 700 01:59:17.100 --> 01:59:31.520 Town of Plainfield: the entire reason for the EVAC and the development of the EVAC and the project as a town project was so that there was town control over how it went and the design and all of that. 701 01:59:31.640 --> 01:59:43.469 Town of Plainfield: We… I mean, I was on the EVAC at the very start, I was on the ad hoc committee before that, but we have known and shared 702 01:59:43.530 --> 02:00:07.370 Town of Plainfield: all along, very transparently, that there is a risk of other actors or other developers coming and purchasing the land and taking the control of whatever happens there away from the town and the community. And I think what Dan had said, makes a lot of sense. There… they are… if there's another developer, they do have to still 703 02:00:07.590 --> 02:00:15.239 Town of Plainfield: abide by rules from the, Development Review Board, and the state, and all of these other things, but… 704 02:00:15.350 --> 02:00:24.190 Town of Plainfield: That's private development, and if it goes and it fails, as a town project, that's… that's how that goes. 705 02:00:24.320 --> 02:00:26.100 Town of Plainfield: Thanks. 706 02:00:26.330 --> 02:00:33.330 Town of Plainfield: Oh, Eli text, yeah. Go ahead. Okay. My name's Elena Norway. 707 02:00:33.470 --> 02:00:39.759 Town of Plainfield: And, I'm thinking about, especially the last comment. 708 02:00:40.470 --> 02:00:53.100 Town of Plainfield: we… there's a lot of people that don't feel like they have any control over what's going on, even though in the committee, the EVEAC feels to us 709 02:00:53.210 --> 02:01:00.310 Town of Plainfield: or me, I guess, that it… it hasn't been listening to people. 710 02:01:00.320 --> 02:01:16.519 Town of Plainfield: And what they want. So, it doesn't feel like just because it's in the… in the town's control, that we have any control over it, honestly. We asked for a referendum vote, and we couldn't get one, because we heard it wasn't binding. It wouldn't be binding. 711 02:01:16.520 --> 02:01:20.359 Town of Plainfield: You know? And then we came up with the bond vote. 712 02:01:20.420 --> 02:01:34.300 Town of Plainfield: And that, to me, was a referendum vote on the project. I know a lot of people, and I also went door-to-door, and I heard a lot of concerned citizens that don't feel… they want development. 713 02:01:34.620 --> 02:01:41.699 Town of Plainfield: But they don't want that 40-unit development on that property, and they have no control over it. 714 02:01:41.990 --> 02:01:49.139 Town of Plainfield: So, voting no was the only control they had, and they were hoping that then the town was gonna come together. 715 02:01:49.150 --> 02:02:06.259 Town of Plainfield: And work together for the best for the whole community. Not just… it's like a steamroller, that EVEAC. And that's how I feel, and I know a lot of people. And to me, that's the no vote. It's no to this project, the way it is. 716 02:02:06.660 --> 02:02:15.570 Town of Plainfield: Well, I, as a board member and select board chair, I apologize to you if that committee that we were responsible for weren't listening. 717 02:02:16.020 --> 02:02:25.830 Town of Plainfield: You know, we… we had limited… we get reports from them, they would tell us what was happening, and so on, but we had expected also that they would listen. 718 02:02:25.870 --> 02:02:44.319 Town of Plainfield: to your ideas, and I know… I know that there were all kinds of ideas. The Select Board can't listen to everything, unfortunately. That's why we have the committee. And… but we were responsible for the committee, and if they were failing and listening, then I'm sorry about that. I mean, may I respond? Yeah, go ahead. 719 02:02:44.360 --> 02:02:51.309 Town of Plainfield: The last 6 months of this process, during which time there have been a great many public comments. 720 02:02:51.380 --> 02:03:02.160 Town of Plainfield: that are, you know, crying out, listen to me. We have concerns. The last 6 months, at least, have been, oh, there's this giant grant. 721 02:03:02.200 --> 02:03:15.279 Town of Plainfield: That, you know, it's an astronomic figure. We're not… none of us are gonna sit here and say that, like, $9.4 million isn't a lot of money to a town with a budget of $1.5 million. It's a lot of money. 722 02:03:15.770 --> 02:03:23.419 Town of Plainfield: Therefore, this grant came along, and it derailed public input, straight up. 723 02:03:24.240 --> 02:03:37.219 Town of Plainfield: Derailed, and then the stipulations of the grant had that we were unable, ineligible, or it would be, like, a bad idea to include the cost of the land 724 02:03:37.360 --> 02:03:47.650 Town of Plainfield: in the grant application. So, the bond vote. And so, when, like, in this, like, open window after the grant application, where 725 02:03:47.850 --> 02:03:54.720 Town of Plainfield: public comment, the design process could have been reopened. It didn't, because then all of a sudden it was all about the bond vote. 726 02:03:54.850 --> 02:04:12.780 Town of Plainfield: And the, you know, campaigning against it, and for it. But, like, that has filled the last 6 months, and so there's a ton of town commentary kind of flying into it. It's not exactly a void, but it's like a maelstrom of wind. 727 02:04:12.810 --> 02:04:23.000 Town of Plainfield: That is ongoing, and there's been no opportunity to reopen the design process to receive those comments and allow the plan to grow smarter. 728 02:04:23.420 --> 02:04:36.129 Town of Plainfield: And I'll just… I'll just say, too, I… because, I mean, I think the EAC folks have done a lot of great work, and they put in a ton of time. I think it is true… 729 02:04:36.130 --> 02:04:54.219 Town of Plainfield: that they did not do everything that people pushed for. But I don't think you can say that nothing about the project has changed based on public comment. I mean, the easiest example is from 40 lots to 40 units. I don't know if the reality sinks in that when you go from 40 lots to 40 units, right away, immediately, because 730 02:04:54.220 --> 02:04:57.480 Town of Plainfield: Habitat for Humanity was gonna make duplexes. 731 02:04:57.480 --> 02:05:21.549 Town of Plainfield: That actually takes the project from 40 lots to 35 lots. That one decision, that one little tweak that still met what the grant was looking for, like, literally can change the lot number. Because it says units, not… I mean… I totally agree, but I was in the meeting and they would not change the map. No, I know, but because it was so late in the process. The map can still change. The map can still change. 732 02:05:21.620 --> 02:05:45.490 Town of Plainfield: Right? Like, it wouldn't make sense to change the map from 40 to 35 lots on a whim, right? They really quickly, in one day, changed the map, and then what we would probably hear is, you've just changed the map, and then the way you've done it, you've actually hurt the wetlands more, or something else. Why didn't you go with that lot on this side instead of cutting this lot on this side? Like, it was a time thing, but I will say, for me, when I heard it, when I talked to Karen about it, when I talked to other folks. 733 02:05:45.610 --> 02:06:10.590 Town of Plainfield: This means the next time we redraw the map, which is after this grant process, it's gonna be 35 lots, maybe small. Maybe we talked downstream into doing duplexes, and now this 35 lot project's now a 30 lot project, right? Like, these are all conversations that we can have if we were the ones doing it, and I feel like what… I am fine with saying EVEAC did not take every recommendation and did not listen to everything, but to say that they did 734 02:06:10.590 --> 02:06:35.429 Town of Plainfield: change, that the project hasn't changed over time, based on feedback, based on things that folks have been saying, based on things George and Rose said, things that Janiece said. Like, it is changing. Maybe not enough, maybe not fast enough for people, but I think it's really disingenuous to say that nothing has changed about the project based on… But you said that you weren't being listened to. We weren't listening to. But they weren't listening, they just weren't agreeing, they just weren't always agreeing. 735 02:06:35.430 --> 02:06:46.899 Town of Plainfield: speed, whether they want this project or not, and we didn't get a chance to do that. And as far as I'm concerned, that's what this vote told us. The Vermont Leagues of Cities and Towns 736 02:06:47.390 --> 02:07:00.569 Town of Plainfield: lawyers recommended that we not do a vote like the way that you asked for, that it was a… that it was a bad practice, and badly oppressive, and just not something that they should… 737 02:07:00.890 --> 02:07:04.720 Town of Plainfield: do. Like, so we are taking legal advice. 738 02:07:04.870 --> 02:07:11.679 Town of Plainfield: from experts on how to do these kinds of things. Maybe they're wrong, but we also don't want to get the town into 739 02:07:11.890 --> 02:07:28.240 Town of Plainfield: problems, because we're not following… we literally ask for a decision of their, like, lawyers, and this is… they said, don't… don't do it like that, you can… you can do things, you can do… like, because it's how we run the town, right? Like, we don't run… we have a town that has town meeting, everybody comes into this room. 740 02:07:28.360 --> 02:07:42.110 Town of Plainfield: And they vote on most things, right? And because that's the way we do most things, that's the way we should do maybe this thing, but we… it's not advisable, because we as a town have not voted, other than money. 741 02:07:42.520 --> 02:07:44.119 Town of Plainfield: Electing some folks. 742 02:07:44.220 --> 02:08:02.170 Town of Plainfield: And, and but money and elections of folks. The town has not, in our charter, allowed other kinds of votes. Like, it's just, we have… we have said we want to do it in person. Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe everything should be a ballot, and then we could have more different kinds of ballots. But that's not the charter we have as a town. 743 02:08:02.520 --> 02:08:21.159 Town of Plainfield: And other towns do. Other towns can have lots of different kinds of votes, but we have decided to have an in-person meeting in March that decides a lot of the fate of the town. And so because of that, VLCT said it is not recommended that you do a referendum-type vote by Australian ballot in November. 744 02:08:21.320 --> 02:08:43.639 Town of Plainfield: We're just following advice. Yep. Eli, you've been waiting. Sorry. My name is Eli Barlow, and I, like many in this room, am very frustrated. So, I just wanted to go back to 40 units, right? The 40-unit plan with the sitemap was created by a, a, 745 02:08:44.950 --> 02:08:59.389 Town of Plainfield: public process in this room. The public process had the constraint of the project being self-funded, which drove the number of lots up, right? Great. Okay. 40 units? 746 02:08:59.500 --> 02:09:08.630 Town of Plainfield: came in one of those publicly designed youth sites. 70 also came in one of those publicly designed sites, right? 747 02:09:08.990 --> 02:09:22.519 Town of Plainfield: So, then, and correct me if I'm wrong, Sandra Bitstone met with the abutters and concerned folks afterwards, and negotiated 748 02:09:23.420 --> 02:09:37.100 Town of Plainfield: Right, and, and negotiated about getting a lot number of 40 units. 749 02:09:37.660 --> 02:09:41.010 Town of Plainfield: More public input has happened since then. 750 02:09:41.280 --> 02:09:43.670 Town of Plainfield: the… the… 751 02:09:43.870 --> 02:09:55.279 Town of Plainfield: grant was applied for with this sitemap that was drawn. And in the meeting where the EVEAC voted to put this forward, I said. 752 02:09:55.890 --> 02:10:01.790 Town of Plainfield: Maybe, as the grant negotiations happen, that number will go down. 753 02:10:02.140 --> 02:10:14.729 Town of Plainfield: Right? And just like you said, Tammy, it's not all or nothing, right? But, to hear that you went out and went door-to-door and campaigned to 754 02:10:15.020 --> 02:10:19.579 Town of Plainfield: Get people to come to vote, but also to provide information. 755 02:10:19.580 --> 02:10:37.320 Town of Plainfield: Point of order. Meetings of the town, point of order. Yeah. Go ahead. Meetings of the town cannot second-guess the motives of members of this community. Oh my goodness. Is that an actual point of order? I know! Can you, can you, did you make that point of order when someone was… 756 02:10:37.320 --> 02:10:44.080 Town of Plainfield: Talking about the intent of the EVAC members? I missed that, Charlie, when you called that out earlier in the meeting. Where were you? 757 02:10:44.210 --> 02:11:00.280 Town of Plainfield: Why am I not allowed to talk to my community members? Oh, no, I'm saying that… Eli's not speaking for the Select Board. No, absolutely not. I'm talking for me. But why would I not be able to talk to my community? You totally are. 758 02:11:00.280 --> 02:11:14.959 Town of Plainfield: She hasn't finished. Charlie pulling the border, Charlie interrupted him. I'm just really frustrated that you went out, and did you encourage people to vote no? Nope. 759 02:11:14.960 --> 02:11:16.070 Town of Plainfield: I did not. 760 02:11:16.070 --> 02:11:39.800 Town of Plainfield: You went… We wanted to make sure that everybody knew that there was a vote. That's how we went to the door. We want to make sure you know there's a vote. It's a very important vote. And then some people said we already did vote, so we chit-chatted, whatever. Other people said, you know, their shoulders, like, released, and they had questions. They didn't know. We talked to people earnestly about it. 761 02:11:39.800 --> 02:11:46.519 Town of Plainfield: And that's why I feel that I got the idea that people do not want the projects. 762 02:11:46.520 --> 02:12:10.819 Town of Plainfield: And is it not okay for me to say, I recommend it, but no? You were wrong, yes. It absolutely… it absolutely is okay for me to do that. Can we let people… yeah, let's finish your point, we have some… Hey, Eli, if you just turn your comments this way, not towards standing. Totally, thank you. There you go. 763 02:12:10.820 --> 02:12:16.840 Town of Plainfield: It's really frustrating that members of my community campaigned to… 764 02:12:16.950 --> 02:12:35.840 Town of Plainfield: encourage a no vote. And that no vote resulted in you not having… the select board not having the choice to say yes or no to this, block, block loan. Right. Yeah. That's what I want to say. Okay, thank you. Yeah. 765 02:12:36.310 --> 02:12:48.730 Town of Plainfield: JP McBride, I guess I just have a question for folks that are, that are still here. What, what… I have one conversation, please. Please. 766 02:12:48.940 --> 02:12:51.270 Town of Plainfield: What is the goal at this point? 767 02:12:51.570 --> 02:13:10.129 Town of Plainfield: The no vote privatized this. The no vote privatized this. Thank you. I'm curious what the goal is at this point. The no vote privatized it, and people are still here yelling at y'all, and saying, you know, do this, do that. We're already… our decisions were made for us. 768 02:13:10.130 --> 02:13:21.169 Town of Plainfield: It happens. It is now not in the town's control, including ours, as the town's people. We voted no. We voted no. It is not the town project anymore. 769 02:13:21.270 --> 02:13:28.070 Town of Plainfield: Why are we still here? Why are we still giving these people a hard time? I don't know. So we went behind our grant for that piece? 770 02:13:28.070 --> 02:13:39.980 Town of Plainfield: That has nothing to do with the part of the grant. You can withdraw our part of the grant, you can amend the part of the grant to do something different, to maybe support the new project. 771 02:13:39.980 --> 02:14:04.499 Town of Plainfield: What new projects? There is nothing drawn up. There is nothing drawn up yet. If that committee comes forward with a project, I would love to see that happen. I would love to see that happen. It doesn't have to be a project, it can just be, well, it… Sure. Okay, let… if I can address that, the… it has to be a project to get money, and if we were to change… if we were to change the… 772 02:14:04.520 --> 02:14:21.080 Town of Plainfield: the status of the grant that we have already in place, it's gonna throw it out, I think. So we kind of have to go with what we've started with, and make changes if we're… if we get it. And I'll just say, for the… 773 02:14:21.080 --> 02:14:43.089 Town of Plainfield: CDBG, I always get that wrong. CDBG DR grant, it is not a planning grant. It is explicitly a housing and infrastructure grant. The money that's available that we know we have in the state, that's already came from the feds, it's not all money, it's coming from the feds anymore, is for projects, not for planning. And if we have other projects, well, we can look at those. 774 02:14:43.670 --> 02:14:45.430 Town of Plainfield: But this is the one in front of us. 775 02:14:45.710 --> 02:15:08.690 Town of Plainfield: But that's where we were. Yes. At the vote time, and then the vote failed, so now it's, like, it is no longer the select board or the townspeople's responsibility or ability, frankly. It is now a private decision, and that is the decision that we made as a town, and I think a decision that I had… I had concerns about. 776 02:15:08.690 --> 02:15:12.150 Town of Plainfield: the whole time, and I tied the voice that down. 777 02:15:12.170 --> 02:15:13.340 Town of Plainfield: Thank you. 778 02:15:13.370 --> 02:15:16.330 Town of Plainfield: I don't think we're gonna get… 779 02:15:16.570 --> 02:15:27.219 Town of Plainfield: to any resolution tonight, but I appreciate the input, and and we'll look into some things that have been presented that we didn't know about, or weren't aware of. 780 02:15:27.450 --> 02:15:30.829 Town of Plainfield: Our attorneys working on getting some answers for us. 781 02:15:31.050 --> 02:15:43.379 Town of Plainfield: That, will help us close out whatever we can, and get the best benefit from what we've started, and, we'll be getting report from the, 782 02:15:43.580 --> 02:15:54.820 Town of Plainfield: EVAC group, as well, and we'll be getting some information from a new group, I hope. Yeah, and our next select board meeting is November 24th. 783 02:15:54.920 --> 02:16:17.350 Town of Plainfield: Right? Which segues us into… I'd like to make a motion to adjourn, Carl. At 8.56 PM. Oh, I'm sorry, Michael. You gotta take the second. Okay, I'll take the second, we'll have some discussion. Okay, we have a motion and a second, discussion. Michael? I'm sorry. 784 02:16:17.620 --> 02:16:32.650 Town of Plainfield: What's that? I'm not discussing the motion to adhere. Oh. Is that alright? Well, go ahead. I didn't see you. I didn't see you, but I was… let him speak up. Okay. 785 02:16:32.860 --> 02:16:37.040 Town of Plainfield: I'm not here to be angry. 786 02:16:38.830 --> 02:16:42.750 Town of Plainfield: And, although we should be speaking to the board. 787 02:16:42.940 --> 02:16:45.520 Town of Plainfield: I do want to address what Jake said. 788 02:16:49.290 --> 02:16:56.069 Town of Plainfield: And I'm… and we're all individuals in this… This group that we called… 789 02:16:56.280 --> 02:17:02.799 Town of Plainfield: Plainfield is for Responsible Growth, which is a silly name, but it's what we have to come up with really quickly. 790 02:17:03.549 --> 02:17:07.980 Town of Plainfield: And we all have different points of view. 791 02:17:08.860 --> 02:17:13.560 Town of Plainfield: Some of us are… From your point of view, more strident, some of us. 792 02:17:13.950 --> 02:17:15.040 Town of Plainfield: Or not. 793 02:17:15.410 --> 02:17:17.070 Town of Plainfield: Some of us have… 794 02:17:17.430 --> 02:17:24.660 Town of Plainfield: Modern views about the proposed project. Some of us have absolutist views about the proposed project. 795 02:17:28.030 --> 02:17:41.769 Town of Plainfield: The reason I think those of us who are lingering and still want to speak is not because we want to yell at the board, or yell at the proponents of the project. 796 02:17:42.760 --> 02:17:45.239 Town of Plainfield: We do have concern. 797 02:17:46.690 --> 02:17:50.670 Town of Plainfield: Is that… among other things. 798 02:17:50.840 --> 02:17:59.980 Town of Plainfield: That this new nonprofit that just formed, that we're all aware of, but nobody wants to really acknowledge, 799 02:18:01.490 --> 02:18:04.059 Town of Plainfield: Could acquire the land. 800 02:18:04.490 --> 02:18:11.480 Town of Plainfield: And we can conceivably donate the land to the town so that the town could start again. 801 02:18:12.510 --> 02:18:15.350 Town of Plainfield: But we really want you to understand… 802 02:18:16.250 --> 02:18:24.180 Town of Plainfield: That despite what the language of the vote was, in terms of the bond, article. 803 02:18:26.450 --> 02:18:33.210 Town of Plainfield: The reason it was so overwhelmingly defeated was not about $600,000. 804 02:18:33.330 --> 02:18:37.450 Town of Plainfield: It was not about whether the town should borrow money. 805 02:18:37.770 --> 02:18:45.189 Town of Plainfield: That was not a lot of money compared to $10 million. It was a little teeny bit compared to $10 million. 806 02:18:45.750 --> 02:18:55.290 Town of Plainfield: The people voted no because they didn't think the project deserved to live, unless it was extremely modified. 807 02:18:55.500 --> 02:19:01.139 Town of Plainfield: Unless it was more appropriate to that piece of land, Into the neighborhood. 808 02:19:01.400 --> 02:19:02.770 Town of Plainfield: Into the town. 809 02:19:04.120 --> 02:19:11.350 Town of Plainfield: And unfortunately, Well… Understandably. 810 02:19:11.450 --> 02:19:12.530 Town of Plainfield: The board? 811 02:19:12.809 --> 02:19:20.900 Town of Plainfield: seems to not want to let go of it quite yet. You're acknowledging that it's out of your control at the moment? That's true. 812 02:19:21.170 --> 02:19:38.299 Town of Plainfield: But you aren't letting go of it, because you're not backing out of the grant application, and because you are having conversations that you can't share with us about alternatives, options, what's going to happen to the purchase and sales agreement, etc. 813 02:19:39.180 --> 02:19:40.209 Town of Plainfield: It's just… 814 02:19:40.620 --> 02:19:52.450 Town of Plainfield: smacks at something going on that we're worried about. That you may want to pursue something that the voters have told you they don't want. 815 02:19:53.300 --> 02:19:57.169 Town of Plainfield: Now, if it could have… if some compromise could be made. 816 02:19:57.360 --> 02:20:04.320 Town of Plainfield: It should have happened a long time ago, but, you know, maybe there's that kind of possibility, but… 817 02:20:04.700 --> 02:20:08.420 Town of Plainfield: But it's all gone down, it's, it's, it's like… 818 02:20:10.240 --> 02:20:14.260 Town of Plainfield: We were frozen out for a long time, and despite what Dan says. 819 02:20:14.870 --> 02:20:27.769 Town of Plainfield: Very little was modified in that plan. Yes, 5 units were taken out, and that was… I watched that meeting. That was at the last minute during that meeting that everyone made the decision. 820 02:20:27.870 --> 02:20:31.160 Town of Plainfield: And Eli was almost about no at the beginning. 821 02:20:31.770 --> 02:20:33.579 Town of Plainfield: If I'm correct. 822 02:20:33.940 --> 02:20:47.920 Town of Plainfield: There were 4 definite votes, no, and the chairs were worried about that, and I think that's why it went from 40 to 35, and Eli and I was, I believe, one of the 823 02:20:49.560 --> 02:21:01.629 Town of Plainfield: architecture of making it a little bit better. But, if I got that wrong, I apologize. No worries. Okay. Alright, and I won't ramble on, I'll finish up. 824 02:21:01.880 --> 02:21:09.469 Town of Plainfield: That's my message. Okay. I think the board needs to take us forward, not us. 825 02:21:09.770 --> 02:21:13.819 Town of Plainfield: Me and a couple of people who… terror and credit. 826 02:21:14.350 --> 02:21:17.490 Town of Plainfield: 11% more of the town. 827 02:21:17.870 --> 02:21:37.800 Town of Plainfield: That's a significant vote. 5%, but yeah. Of the full vote, of the full town, if you take the town. It was, it was… We hear ya, town voters. We hear you. I hear what you're saying. 11% more voters shows none. Correct. That's a big number. 828 02:21:37.800 --> 02:22:02.370 Town of Plainfield: I, I fully understand. Yep. We have a motion and a second to adjourn. I'd like to have a vote. I think we're losing quorum, so I don't think we're… we have two members leaving, so I don't think we have quorum anymore, so we have to adjourn. So we're gonna have, we're gonna have a vote. All those in favor of adjourning? Can we keep my Zoom going? 829 02:22:02.370 --> 02:22:13.690 Town of Plainfield: Say aye? Sure. Yeah. Just hit, hit, take, turn the recording. All those in favor, say aye. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. Can we, wait, can we…